NA Build Questions | Blue-/ Redtop questions

[robokill]

Nice list you have here. I would say rebuild a stock bluetop as you will have a fresh new engine which is always better then a used one.

I like the list though I don't see a reason why you would need the adjustable camgears and why on earth you would take cams with 288 degree with only 7.9mm lift.

Go less duration with more lift you stock lifters will handle 9mm lift.

Forged connecting rods are nice but I would rather swap over the lifters in the head as you will stay below 8k RPM. (use the yaris ones)

Now here a something I have heared but cannot prove. It seems waterpumps have trouble above 5k rpm. I cannot prove this but I can recall a 20min run on the track where my engine temperature got hot. (water)

Enough people here have build engines and can tell you there specs. 150 hp in the engine shouldn't be the issue. What you should be carefull off is at which RPM you have it.

d3nso Wrote:Hey there,

as I planning to get an AE86 in the next Months I started thinking about an NA engine rebuild. My target is a 140-150HP build, but I'm a little bit unsure how to go with(I'm not an professional :roll: ).
Take the Bluetop and rebuild them, or getting an Redtop from an AE92 and tune it?

The Spec list what I'm planning:
- Head work
- ITB's
- Standalone ECU
- Toda Racing Adjustable Cam Pulleys
- Toda Racing Timming Belt
- Toda Racing Valve Springs
- Toda Racing Camshafts 288° 7.9mm lift
- Toda Racing 0.8mm Head Gasket
- ACL Bearings
- ARP Rods/ Bolts
- New OEM water/oil pump
- Forged Connection Rods

optional:
- ?

So whats Your opinion about this Setup? I'm open for other thoughts / builds
Btw I'm planning this setup as an reliable engine for Street/ Trackday use (taking the advantage of the german change plate option for two cars)

[d3nso]

Hm if I would take a redtop, I would rebuild them aswell. The reason why I have them in my mind are the exta meat of the block, bigger crank (stronger/better for high RPM?) and the oil squirters.
Well I choose 7.9mm lift cause I thought more would not work with stock lifters.
The setup should be able to pass the german Tüv, thats what I'm a little worry about.

Well I will take a look at catcam Crankshafts.

[oldeskewltoy]

d3nso Wrote:The setup should be able to pass the german Tüv, thats what I'm a little worry about.

Maybe you should fill us in as to these specifications..........

[fax0815]

d3nso Wrote:Hm if I would take a redtop, I would rebuild them aswell. The reason why I have them in my mind are the exta meat of the block, bigger crank (stronger/better for high RPM?) and the oil squirters.
Well I choose 7.9mm lift cause I thought more would not work with stock lifters.
The setup should be able to pass the german Tüv, thats what I'm a little worry about.

Well I will take a look at catcam Crankshafts.

Stronger but also more weight you need to accelerate and stop, a thing you should never underestimate on an engine

7,9mm is the limit on stock valve springs, if you change them you can run up to 9mm before you getting problems with the lifters and poping shims.

Honestly, fuck the TUV, your chances of getting this legal, especially with throttlebodies are very little. Its the emissions that will make this impossible, unless you´re in the Rallyebusiness and know the people that TÜV Rallye cars, they´re normally better with modifikations, I´ve seen 4AGE Starlets leaving them fullly approved

[Bean]

as mentioned before, your desired power goal does not need ITBs so you're better off with a single throttlebody and intake manifold.
As to how far you can go with tuning and still meet emissions I have no clue. My own car never had a CAT and therefore the limits I have to meet are substantialy higher. This is not to say it's not possible. oldeskewltoy got his tune through emissions with proper tuning so I can't see why you shouldn't considering your aiming for a lower power goal then him. I'ts all in the tuning so a standalone is mandatory.

[d3nso]

oldeskewltoy Wrote:

d3nso Wrote:The setup should be able to pass the german Tüv, thats what I'm a little worry about.

Maybe you should fill us in as to these specifications..........

The main problem will be the emission test i think:

u Kat:

idle,
-carbon monoxide >3.5%


g Kat:

idle,
- carbon monoxide >0.5%

raised idleling,
- lambda 0.97-1.03
- carbon monoxide >0.3%

The Car got no g Kat (controlled) i think, so u Kat counts?

[Bean]

as said it's possible... look here:
http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic/ae86/t/78.../start=146

[oldeskewltoy]

d3nso Wrote:

oldeskewltoy Wrote:

d3nso Wrote:The setup should be able to pass the german Tüv, thats what I'm a little worry about.

Maybe you should fill us in as to these specifications..........

The main problem will be the emission test i think:

u Kat:

idle,
-carbon monoxide >3.5%



raised idleling,
- lambda 0.97-1.03
- carbon monoxide >0.3%

The Car got no g Kat (controlled) i think, so u Kat counts?

Do you have a nitrogen oxides (NOx) test you must pass also???

it is possible to use 256 camshafts and still pass those emissions numbers. ITBs MIGHT pass, if set PERFECTLY... and running on capable management, but they will not make any more HP then a single T/B car, at emissions friendly power levels.

OST-019 was a porting job I did for a California car... and it passed inspection using stock engine management, HKS 256 cams, and a new cat. It was also @ about 10.5 to 10.7 to 1 static CR. It used a smallport head and a ported(by me) T3 adapter.