DIV 1 rally/track 4AGE(objective +- 130 whp)

[Bean]

ditn Wrote:The problem im facing right now is the following
if i have the the 40/18 combination then i cant use the parts i want because those are with 20mm pins?
2)the shaving of the head im not to keen on,but i have no choice i guess?

as said orion makes rods to get around this problem - that is if you want to invest in that direction... I can't find the exact numbers right now but I have found major weight advantage (1kg+ on the rotating assembly without flywheel compared to a 20V blacktop) with their rods and custom pistons which helps even more with quick reving but as mentioned before, probably overkill for your goals.

Headgaskets are available as low as 0.4mm so this might be an option to avoid shaving the head more than necessary...

for what it's worth I would take the engine apart and measure all the tolerances and rebuild properly to avoid any serious damage if you intend to tune it. this doesn't mean fancy products but rather reviving it with today's means incl. fresh balancing of crank etc to much higher grade than production level (I have friend who works in aviation who did a crank of mine from a previous racecar to the couple of micrograms @10k rpm instead of the couple of grams it was before he worked it).

[demee76]

Hi

Interesting subject
Also want a 4a with ~160hp (flywheel) and have to stay "discrete"

I will probably reniew my bloc in2012. My crankshaft was out of tolerance and it was better to begin with a new one. After a few research, I've just bought a 42/20 instead of 40/18 because the are ~250€ cheaper(mine has costed 726€ insted ~1000€ for a bluetop one), parts was easier to find ...

I think if your crankshaft is good enough, begin with it and a set of good Hicomp pistons. If you have to change it, buy a 42/20, it will be cheaper

[Bean]

demee76 Wrote:Hi

Interesting subject
Also want a 4a with ~160hp (flywheel) and have to stay "discrete"

I will probably reniew my bloc in2012. My crankshaft was out of tolerance and it was better to begin with a new one. After a few research, I've just bought a 42/20 instead of 40/18 because the are ~250€ cheaper(mine has costed 726€ insted ~1000€ for a bluetop one), parts was easier to find ...

I think if your crankshaft is good enough, begin with it and a set of good Hicomp pistons. If you have to change it, buy a 42/20, it will be cheaper

did you buy a brand new one? spares are usualy going cheaper than the above

[demee76]

Yes, it's well a new one direct from Toyota.

42/20:726€ all included but it was really a good price for an OEM new part. Ik know second hand are cheaper but you never really know the "history" of the part.

[totta Crolla]

You missed a lightweight flywheel from your list but remember, power is made above the pistons !

[Bean]

totta Crolla Wrote:You missed a lightweight flywheel from your list but remember, power is made above the pistons !

True, but everything below should survive the beating

[ditn]

the flywheel/clutch will come way before i start any engine tuning

40/20 combo is pretty expensive,for the money of that i could buy an late 4AGE redtop or do other things.

0.4 mm sounds extreme,what are the disadvantages of this?
arp bolts for sure and quicker cracking?


Im interested in what build Jan Pedersen his rallycar is if you want to tell

[oldeskewltoy]

Bean Bandit Wrote:

totta Crolla Wrote:You missed a lightweight flywheel from your list but remember, power is made above the pistons !

True, but everything below must survive the beating

fixed that for you....

and back to your point.... as well as having minimal "cost", OR put another way... how much hp do all the internals steal???

I'm the one who said the early crank is at least a kilo lighter... that is why I'm using the early one in my engine. I'm making over 145 whp (over 165 @ the flywheel). When I built my engine, the +EM rods were not available. That made piston selection more difficult, I'm using European 4AGE pistons, they are 10 to 1, not 9.4 to 1.

*IF* I were building my engine today.... I would remove the Euro TVIS pistons (10 to 1) and I'd remove the bluetop 40/18 rods, and replace those with the +EM rods, and +EM/JE Piston new pistons.

Here is my engine's details.....



2nd dyno run, first one in link ** below. Please note, there is over 90#/ft (measured @ the wheels) for more than 4500 rpm -



full build info - http://www.hachiroku.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10947

Short and sweet
AE92 smallport head - ported by Loynings
Web 577 camshafts, T3 timing pulleys set to 111 degrees
single T/B on clipped and flipped smallport intake manifold
AE92 high comp block w squiters plugged, decked, stock head gasket
Euro TVIS pistons(10 to 1)
final measured compression ratio of 10.75 to 1
AE86 "small" crank w 40mm rod journals, lightened, shotpeened, and balanced "3 rib bluetop type"
AE86 small connecting rods - lightened, shotpeened and balanced
wrist pins are aftermarket steel 64 grams vs 89 grams for stock
blacktop flywheel w AE92 clutch
crank pulley is OEM 2 row, machined and rebalanced as a single row

KBD 4/2/1 header
Brave 60mm exhaust

FJO racing management
sequential injection
wasted spark ignition

running on 92 octane fuel


** - http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j143/o...stdyno.jpg

Above is her first dyno run. The initial ignition map was only written to 7500 rpm(engine and cams are good to 8400)

141whp @ 7468, 108#s wheel torque @ 6127rpm.

Engine numbers(back calculated by their dyno) 164hp @7468, 128ft/# 6127rpm.

1st dyno run -




..... and ALL emissions complaint!!!

[Bean]

oldeskewltoy Wrote:*IF* I were building my engine today.... I would remove the Euro TVIS pistons (10 to 1) and I'd remove the bluetop 40/18 rods, and replace those with the +EM rods, and +EM/JE Piston new pistons.

this sounds familiar

like I said it's a matter of cost - although stock parts in good shape (small or big crank) will take the beating of ~130whp I personally would and most probably will opt for the setup above for the sole reason I mentioned before "lightness" incl. flywheel we are talking of more than 3kg of the rotating assembly compared to a 20V blacktop (which isn't the heaviest of the 4AGE to begin with). As a bonus you get modern manufactured items which take much more power than the old fashioned ones and hence more reliability. Sure we are talking in the regions of an extra 1500$ (if you include the +EM/JE pistons (+EM = Orion)) but for me that's a small price considering that the resulting engine if built properly will most probably last just as long as a stock engine (read years of hard driving) and wont scream for another rebuild after 100'000km like many tuned engines which are pushed to their limits.

It all depends on how much you want to spend:

Power - Reliability - Cheap
in the real world you can only pick two of the above.

Final note: once I get my head I will put it on my stock block but I'm fully aware that it's just a matter of time before something brakes down there - that's why I'm already putting the gears for a replacement in motion. Despite the fact that I will swap in a Beams once my situation (location and law) changes. As for me it's just the right thing to do.

[Jan Pedersen]

ditn Wrote:Im interested in what build Jan Pedersen his rallycar is if you want to tell

I'll try to make a list of the parts used but as I said this is not my engine so it will take a few days