F20C or Beams?

[Chixican]

Either engine will leave you with a smile on your face during the drive. I'm sure a beams engine will be able to clear the steering column easier than a f20c for all of you RHD guys out there since the intake is on steering column side. Personally I'm going with a f22c because I scored a deal on an engine/gearbox with about 3700 miles on it (6000 Kms). The intake will clear the steering column nicely on my LHD car too.

Hopefully I'll be building it this winter and have it rolling full force by spring.

[JonnyAE86]

SR20

[Conrad]

JonnyAE86 Wrote:SR20

its not even in the same league as the other two options

[marvinng]

as much as i love toyota, i'd vote for f20c.

my mechanics has a beams motor in his 86 which i have driven. the engine is heavy. need to drop the sub-frame by 1.5" or 1.75" and messes up the suspension geometry. the car doesn't handle very well.

another buddy of mine has done many f20c swaps (like 5 this year), and he has also driven my mechanic's beams-86. he said the f20c-86 is way faster, no comparison. the engine is lighter, only needs 1/2" subframe spacer, minimum change to the suspension geometry so the car handles better. i have never driven a f20c-86 but i take his words for it.

marvin

[JonnyAE86]

Conrad Wrote:

JonnyAE86 Wrote:SR20

its not even in the same league as the other two options

Pardon my early "assholeness", I mean, both engines are GREAT and I would give my left nut to own any of them, but this discussion is just like:

"Should I do Pamela Lee or Jessica Alba??"

IMO you should go for the V-TEC once you already have it, for extra power go for the Turbo Nissan

Its a dead end, so I did not vote, I would love to have both and honestly I cant decide...

Cheers

[Dimitri]

marvinng Wrote:as much as i love toyota, i'd vote for f20c.

my mechanics has a beams motor in his 86 which i have driven. the engine is heavy. need to drop the sub-frame by 1.5" or 1.75" and messes up the suspension geometry. the car doesn't handle very well.

another buddy of mine has done many f20c swaps (like 5 this year), and he has also driven my mechanic's beams-86. he said the f20c-86 is way faster, no comparison. the engine is lighter, only needs 1/2" subframe spacer, minimum change to the suspension geometry so the car handles better. i have never driven a f20c-86 but i take his words for it.

marvin

it is definitely just as easy to fit the beams without "sub frame" spacers as it is the f20.

if you cut the tunnel and raise it, you can easily push the beams far enough back to not to space the sub frame using the 6 speed, i know, we've done it. seeing as you basically HAVE to do this to fit the f20c's box, i dont see how you can argue that the f20 is easier to fit nicely/with less mods. the beams also has other transmission options i mentioned above, which will require little more than a few taps with a hammer.

power wise.. 1 beams v's someone who sounds like they make a living out of doing f20 swaps isnt really an open and shut case.

this is a total wild guess, but im assuming that if youre mechanic is happy to fit the engine, by dropping the sub frame by over 1.5", which is HEAPS, he might also have not quite got the wiring/tuning spot on.

most people run the beams on standalone.. if thats the case with your mechanics car, then possibly his tune isnt getting everything out of the motor. its definitely a fairly "tricky".. or at least time consuming engine to tune. basically there are 4 things to tune.. instead of the normal 2 on most engines.. as both cams are constantly varying (not just on/off like a 20v vvt) so there is a map for each cam, as well as ignition and fuel.

as far as weight.

id love to see some numbers. not just the aluminium is lighter than steel rationale.

thats the same as people assuming SR20s are light because theyre all alloy.

or that rotarys are light because theyre small.

the way i see it, the honda engine, as standard, makes a little more power, but is a little harder to fit.

here in australia though, the difference in price (over $3000) tips the balance fairly heavily back towards the beams. out right potential is also very similar with each engine being capable of hitting the 300hp mark, which is commendable for any 2L engine, production based or otherwise.

[Conrad]

JonnyAE86 Wrote:

Conrad Wrote:

JonnyAE86 Wrote:SR20

its not even in the same league as the other two options

Pardon my early "assholeness", I mean, both engines are GREAT and I would give my left nut to own any of them, but this discussion is just like:

"Should I do Pamela Lee or Jessica Alba??"

IMO you should go for the V-TEC once you already have it, for extra power go for the Turbo Nissan

Its a dead end, so I did not vote, I would love to have both and honestly I cant decide...

Cheers

LOL @ Jonny, but turbo VTEC is even better again

I think I'll stick with what I have

[speedyrolla]

I voted for the 3SG Beams..

[marvinng]

Dimitri Wrote:most people run the beams on standalone.. if thats the case with your mechanics car, then possibly his tune isnt getting everything out of the motor.

both the beams-86 and f20c-86 are running stock ecu. it'a apple to apple comparison.

my mechanics is a master tech at lexus by the way. wiring was properly done i'm 100% sure.

in canada, f20c is easier to come by, as none of the toyota's have beams.

anyway, just my 2 cents.

cheers,

marvin

[Dimitri]

master tech, cool.

im not formally trained in anything, but i'd still never space the sub frame 1.5" to fit any engine to any 86 under any circumstance.

im willing to say, maybe the f20 is faster. because ive never been in an 86 powered by one. or an s2000 either. going off the factory quoted power and torque figures, i dont see there being a huge difference, but maybe a noticeable one.

the info i can give is that the beams engine made 175hp at the wheels, on the same dyno, an ae101 20v will be lucky to make 120. (both in ae86s)

what i can say for sure, it is no more necessary to space the sub frame when fitting the beams as it is the f20. both are tall motors, and large gearboxes. though the f20 box quite a bit bigger than the az6. the further back you push the engine, the more clearance you gain with the bonnet (hood) as it is sloped at the expense of necessitating transmission tunnel modifications.

edit- re weight, i dont have any numbers specifically for engines. but i just checked with ant. and his car (jdm trueno, coupe) with beams was 881kg.

frp bonnet and boot. stripped interior, sound deadening stripped up to front seat tie rail, and also had the dash and headlight looms removed. normal windows, larger diff, big ssr 15s ect. apart from the head light dash loom, a fairly normal privateer drift car.