Hard Start and Rough Idle

[Bad_Dog]

Engine:
RedTop small-port

With normal spark advance the engine is hard, almost impossible to start. WIth smaller advance the engine starts, but the idle is rough. Once started the distributor position can be restored to normal and then the engine started again. The idle remains unstable.

The injectors are cleaned recently, the 5th injector (cold start) functions properly. The engine revs nicely.

What's the problem?

[Ivan141]

I'm not understanding your post completely (the part about restoring the distributor to normal) but it sounds like you might have the distributor off by a tooth. Had the same thing on my bluetop after it was swapped in last year. Car was sometimes impossible to start. I would take it out and put in in correctly so you can eliminate that possibility...then get it running and whip out a timing light.

[Bad_Dog]

The distributor is put according to the 4AGE book. I had the same thoughts so I double checked (!!). It is positioned correctly.

When write about smaller advance or restored position I mean moving the distributor with loosened(not removed) bolts. When I say "normal position" i mean 10 degrees before TDS or the bolts exactly in the centre of their holes.

10x

[Apolan]

Bad Dog, have you shorted the number 10 connector when "correcting" the timing?

i dont know if this aplies to redtops as well as it does to bluetops..

check tis topic, more to the bottom of the 1.st page ther is some clue about this.
http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic.php?t=1673&start=0

[jamiemirror]

Quote:When I say "normal position" i mean 10 degrees before TDS or the bolts exactly in the centre of their holes.

Try 6 deg.

[Bad_Dog]

Apolan Wrote:Bad Dog, have you shorted the number 10 connector when "correcting" the timing?

Nope. But the car is being repaired (and soon painted i hope) and "sleeps" with battery disconected. So the ECU must be RESET every new day.

Apolan Wrote:i dont know if this aplies to redtops as well as it does to bluetops..

Redtops are similar to Kouki bluetops. So they have check connector.

Apolan Wrote:check tis topic, more to the bottom of the 1.st page ther is some clue about this.
http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic.php?t=1673&start=0

Thanx. Although I don't think that's the problem I'll try it.

[Bad_Dog]

jamiemirror Wrote:

Quote:When I say "normal position" i mean 10 degrees before TDS or the bolts exactly in the centre of their holes.

Try 6 deg.

Wouldn't help.

[Ivan141]

Bad Dog, shorting the connector does not reset the ECU...it only forces the ECU to stop managing the ignition timing. If you dont ground it the ECU will keep changing the ignition timing while your trying to set it correctly. With the connector left open you should read about 16 degr. BTDC. It's easy to short the connector with a bit of wire..and you'll be able to read possible error codes at the same time (flashing patterns on check engine light).

[Apolan]

indeed. although i dont think that your problem. i had my timing waaay off and i could start and drive the car normally.

[Ivan141]

Well it depends which way it was off...my distributor was off by a tooth and made the car nearly impossible to start..idle was crappy too. Once you start driving you dont notice it much anymore because the ECU starts adjusting things back to reasonable settings (as far as possible)..
Robokill on the other hand had a base timing that was nearly a few degrees AFTER top dead center.. starts and drives just fine but you notice the lack of power..