NA Build Questions | Blue-/ Redtop questions

[d3nso]

Hey there,

as I planning to get an AE86 in the next Months I started thinking about an NA engine rebuild. My target is a 140-150HP build, but I'm a little bit unsure how to go with(I'm not an professional :roll: ).
Take the Bluetop and rebuild them, or getting an Redtop from an AE92 and tune it?

The Spec list what I'm planning:
- Head work
- ITB's
- Standalone ECU
- Toda Racing Adjustable Cam Pulleys
- Toda Racing Timming Belt
- Toda Racing Valve Springs
- Toda Racing Camshafts 288° 7.9mm lift
- Toda Racing 0.8mm Head Gasket
- ACL Bearings
- ARP Rods/ Bolts
- New OEM water/oil pump
- Forged Connection Rods

optional:
- ?

So whats Your opinion about this Setup? I'm open for other thoughts / builds
Btw I'm planning this setup as an reliable engine for Street/ Trackday use (taking the advantage of the german change plate option for two cars)

[cavey]

Wow, looking at your list you're going for 140-150WHP instead of at the clutch.

Afaict, just changing the cams to something like 264 in/ex brings you up in the 140/150hp league already.

But my knowledge is based on billzilla's excelletn 4age tuning pages.

http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm

[Jan Pedersen]

It doesn't have to say TODA to be good Take a look at catcams - they have a nice selection of 4AGE cams that are about half the price of Toda...

Personally I would prefer the redtop with the lighter internals from a bluetop. Add a bit of headwork, bumped CR, ECU and bluetop cams and you have 140 hp.

[oldeskewltoy]

Jan Pedersen Wrote:It doesn't have to say TODA to be good Take a look at catcams - they have a nice selection of 4AGE cams that are about half the price of Toda...

Other camshaft suppliers besides Catcams..... I recommend the OP do some reserch into dynamic compression ratio and build an engine based on that.....

Jan Pedersen Wrote:Personally I would prefer the redtop with the lighter internals from a bluetop. Add a bit of headwork, bumped CR, ECU and bluetop cams and you have 140 hp.

Not sure you'd get to 140... 135 to 140 might be possible... but adding a 256 type camshaft should get you there, and at least allows the engine to pull to over 7000 rpm. Both sets of stock cams (240 and 232 duration) tap out at about 6600......

[Bean]

my recommendation is get the car first and do some driving - in most cases there are other more crucial areas to fix/modify before you need to spend money on the engine

and yes unless AND even if you meant whp in your first post, your shopping list is overkill.

do some or better a lot of reading in our technical section and billzilla and you'll have a much better picture of what is necessary.

Last but not least the OEM conrods are fine the rodbolts are the weak part.

[ditn]

suspension/safety/brakes/oem replacement parts

then

engine tuning

[Jan Pedersen]

oldeskewltoy Wrote:

Jan Pedersen Wrote:It doesn't have to say TODA to be good Take a look at catcams - they have a nice selection of 4AGE cams that are about half the price of Toda...

Other camshaft suppliers besides Catcams..... I recommend the OP do some reserch into dynamic compression ratio and build an engine based on that.....

Jan Pedersen Wrote:Personally I would prefer the redtop with the lighter internals from a bluetop. Add a bit of headwork, bumped CR, ECU and bluetop cams and you have 140 hp.

Not sure you'd get to 140... 135 to 140 might be possible... but adding a 256 type camshaft should get you there, and at least allows the engine to pull to over 7000 rpm. Both sets of stock cams (240 and 232 duration) tap out at about 6600......

I know there are many other brands but to me it seems that catcams are pretty good value.

142 hp at the flywheel with dyno sheet to prove it

[Project D]

ditn Wrote:suspension/safety/brakes/oem replacement parts

then

engine tuning

Could not have said better
Chassis first then engine tuning

[d3nso]

I feel a bit mistaken, I know that other things lie chassis or suspension are more importand than pure Power. But getting good information about an powerful and balanced engine for the future is never a bad thing.
Its all about gathering information an knowlege.

[fax0815]

Bean Bandit Wrote:my recommendation is get the car first and do some driving - in most cases there are other more crucial areas to fix/modify before you need to spend money on the engine

and yes unless AND even if you meant whp in your first post, your shopping list is overkill.

do some or better a lot of reading in our technical section and billzilla and you'll have a much better picture of what is necessary.

Last but not least the OEM conrods are fine the rodbolts are the weak part.

Agree, my little rebuild 4AGE bluetop on stock cams with a bit head work on stock ecu makes 121 whp (140 engine hp) That with a set of mild 264 cams should make 150hp easy on stock Ecu.
Your shopping list, with a set of pistons and a proper exhaust, and decent cams (272, 8,5mm), sounds more like >160