Euro Meet 2005 ?

[ZaX]

This is IRL pic of mobikrog, few days old.

[JonT]

I was thinking along the line of pace notes for the 'ring. It would mean taking a passenger for the first laps so that they can call what's coming next, there is a lot of corners to remember otherwise.

[Mux213]

Pacenotes have been a bit of a contraversy. The nice thing about pacenotes for someone to drive at the ring is that he doesn't have to worry about the next blind corner. There are plenty of things to concentrate on on the ring, having to worry about what corner comes next is something you can do without.
The downside of pacenotes is that a driver could dive into a corner to fast because the pacenotes might assume that a driver is experienced enough to atleast drive a good racing line.

It would be hard to create pacenotes with enough margin in them for a beginner to not get himself into trouble but still fun enough for someone with more circuit experienced to use aswell for the first couple of laps of the ring.

Anyways, I've raised this on the dutch ringrelated forum I visit often, lets see if one of the more experienced guys is willing to give it a try.

[NoHachi]

Pace notes will only work for the experienced rally types, its just too long and some parts are too twisty. Most experienced drivers don't tend to just get in with novices; In the end you are just a passenger and have as much controll as the driver allows you. i've heard from a couple of people that they have had some less pleasant experiences this way. Also, its impossible to learn the track in "the first couple of laps" with a passenger. It takes around 50 laps before you start too know most of the corners.

Driving in a group is a possibility, but demands discipline from the people following. It soon seems like the pace is to slow and they start getting impatient. Usually people are fed up with the convoys after about 2 or 3 laps and start going out on their own. The peugeot club went last year and the same thing happened: two cars were totalled. I've seen this happen time and time again.

Enough with the negative stuff. Its a great place and it has a unique atmosphere. Just don't think of it as being a track where you can race

[Mux213]

NoHachi,

When you use pacenotes to run a course as fast as possible I totally agree with you. You need a driver and navigator with plenty of (rally) experience and very well setup pacenotes to make this work.

When you talk about 'pacenotes' in the sence that a passenger can simply read to the driver what to expect I think it can be a good tool to someone new to the ring and solve otherwise dangerous situations. Like you say, it takes 50 laps for someone to learn the track, that means atleast 50 laps full of surprises when suddenly a blind corner is in your way because you've mistaken where you are on the track. Having someone next to you read out to you what to expect, it sorta makes sence.

When you are talking about having someone next to you or following someone else or reading pacenotes or that sorta thing so you can put some fast laps the first times out, then I think its the driver who has the wrong idea about what he's doing. Especially when doing so in a hachi

First step of driving on the ring: +50 gentle laps with plenty of margin of error to learn it.
Only once you can dream each corner you start working on driving the laps faster.

The problem with having pacenotes is that an inexperienced driver will see them as a tool to drive fast the first times out. That should not be their purpose.

[NoHachi]

Mux, when you are taking it easy why do you still need the pacenotes?

There are only a few corners that will catch you out when your pace is suitable for a beginner. Places like Adenauer forst+Wehrseifen and to a lesser degree Flugplatz, Eiscurve/entrance Brunchen and Hohe acht.

Its just the wrong way round of doing things. Whenever I am in a car with a first timer (i am a novice myself) I only mark the points where he/she can pick up more speed, NOT where to decellerate. I expect the pace to be slow enough so that decellerating is always nice and easy. Whenever I know that there is a long straightaway ahead I just mention this so that the speeddifference with other people doesn't become to large.

By the way, the method above already leads to laptimes of around 10min30s in a reasonably fast car. After that shaving time becomes more difficult and exponentially more dangerous.

[Mux213]

Nohachi,

Just shows you I haven't driven there for 2 years and in a way I'm just being overly cautios. I have been surprised numerous times on the ring when coming over a crest and suddenly seeing the road take a sharp turn to the left or right but as I am taking it slow, I have plenty of time to react. Only this one time when I was driving in a group of cars I got into a hairy situation as they all turned and I didn't.... I know if someone had sat next to me and said, after this small hill there is a sharp right it would haved saved me a near heartattack

And just to let you know how 'good' I am, with the Rex I had laptimes of 12 or 13 mins I still had (and still have) lots to learn

[JonT]

I was thinking more along the lines of calling the next corner rather than using notes to get the fastest possible time, just to help those that have never been there to know where there going.

Personally i'm planning to drive round pretty gently, i'm in no hurry to damage the car !

[86jay]

JonT,
Please keep me informed on this trip to the ring. I will do my best to make it if a few people are going down as a group.

Jay

[Mulisha]

Yeah keep me posted. I can go to the ring but only after 23 March