S13 Hubs on ae86 ??

[jondee86]

That cat ^^^ is not wearing a life jacket...

Cheers... jondee86

[Rascal21]

LOL NoHachi

Instead of jumping at like the first 5 words I uttered in my last post (Nice try though), please understand that I`m refering to performance oriented discs and pads, in other words retain the OEM specs as to disc thickness and diameter.

If you wanna perform in punishing motorsports (like Dakar rally) with your AE86, and you have a huge sponsor, and a team of mechanics to do all the adjusting for you, and clean the brakes for dust and small rocks every time after driving, then go ahead and get them huge brakes, by all means!

Fredric Soerlie on the other hand goes drifting EVERY chance he gets in his MX30 2JZGE`d Cressida drifter using MR2 calipers w/trackday pads and performance discs @ 200kmph drift entry speeds, eats a lot of rear brake shoes (Still runs drums rear, but brake shoes are cheap so he checks the shoes whenever he`s in the pit), other than a 36 year old master cylinder leaking he hasnt had a problem with his brakes yet.
And he dailies that car...

Same point applies to the AE86, which with wet weight is almost as heavy as that "JZX30" Cressida..

Again: What kind of driving does the OP have in mind?

[NoHachi]

I was talking about performance pads (exist) and discs (don't exist).

Small discs = high heat = high temp pads = high wear rate.

For streetdriving (aka using 50% of the capabilities of the car) no prob.
For drifting> I don't think brakes are used much at all..mostly the rears/handbrake.

For any kind of speed related activity.. stock sized brakes will be a mayor problem with anything much over stock power.

So you are right..it depends on the intended use.

[Rascal21]

http://www.driftworks.com/forum/technica...-ae86.html


And theres more "proof" (If you will) where that came from.

We all know cases of complete big-brake failures right smack on the track, yet you make OEM brakes out to be capable of triggering the next apocalypse, and even claim that there are no aftermarket discs available?
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performanc...s-per-pair
(Sorry, HAD to do you one back for the Bandon ship thing)

Even high-power race cars with brakes the size of the wheels we run on our cars struggle with overheated brakes on hot days.
Thats why they do cool-down time and often pit stops to check the components, it`s not ALL 100% driving, for some reason a lot of us mortals miss that point, often more than seldom the reason for the overheat of an engine or brake failure.

The discs wont necessarily get worn out real fast (unless they are crap-brand), I agree the brake pads will, in-between anything from 10 to 100 hard laps, thats why you change the pads, along with tires and any other consumer items, when you`re in the pit.

I have experience with big brakes and know their drawbacks, and a bunch of people with track experience that actually found solutions that WORKS share the same opinion:
That a simple and thought-out cost-effective setup based on the OEM specs, if taken care of even on hardcore trackdays (time for maintenance translates to a lot more track-time!), will still hold stumt against, or even do better than the Big brake kits from Wilwood/AP Racing/Generic Vendor.


Also do you have any idea how HUGE (and expensive) spacers you need to run clear of those humongous calipers??
To give you an idea:


I`ve read some here about P11 brake conversions too, anyone got any track-experience with whether that or RX7 conversions are any good for consistent grip-driving at the track @ normal weather conditions without overheating?

Just trying to give a perspective and toss ideas here for better efficiency and lower costs in lieu with the aeu86 spirit, not trying to be a smartass, if I`m coming across as one then I am really sorry!

At last, if I may quote: I`m sticking to my original story!

This big-brake shaite is NOT as efficient as one might think, it`s a PITA to have anything to do with, and it`s REALLY expensive!

[ditn]

I have to agree with NoHachi here.
I have asked some pretty well known rally drivers here in belgium who are driving ae86 and this is more less there answers +-
(duval,krings,...)

if you drive the stock ae86,dont touch anything its good enough as it if
If you drive the car stock in rally maybe some upgrade pads but dont touch rest
If you drive in group n or group a with hp from 140-220hp either get ap racing/brembo or if not possible get bigger discs in front and rear and uprated pads
dont touch wilwoods(aldo it seems they have gotten better in current years)
rx7 is not that good of an upgrade
267/257 is a good front rear diametre
trd used 260/260 +- front and rear with 6 pot front and 4 pot rear i think
you can still buy them but way to expensive

Whats with those silly spacers btw,you can run ap calipers under 13 inch wheels with no spacers,that picture is ridicilous

I have checked group a from krings and he had ap in front and rear 280/260 i think
Duval had brembo's in front and regular in rear as far as i could see

Me myself i saved a long time and drove on stock on circuit,this year im going for ap kit in front and 257 mm in rear
fits under 13 inch wheels

[Rascal21]

Last time I tried fitting a 13" BBS on there it wouldnt wrap around the caliper, as it were.
Using shorter spacer and a 7" wide wheel it`ll physically touch the coilover due to wider coilover mount placements on the axle (It`s a shaitload more than I care to explain here but it`s geometry related).
The point with that pic was for ppl to see how much to space out for the wheel to clear the caliper.

I`m not dissing the big brakes, but if not used correctly and cared for, they can get distorted from just kidding around a little, all it takes is glowing hot brakes and a misplaced water pit, voilà:
One disc is 380EUR, Pads one caliper is 190EUR.

Then again, we still dont know what type of driving the OP wants to do! Darn cliff hangers! :wink:

[NoHachi]

If you have glowing red discs on a big brake kit, then the stock brake setup would have been long gone! If you get the big brakes red hot, then you needed them in the first place to be driving at all.

Letting brakes cool is a solution, but kinetic energy goes up at the square of speed. As you increase speeds that is a lot of added heat. Performance pads can handle up to 750 degrees for a short time. Anything over that and they turn to gas. At around 700 degrees they wear like crazy! You will be changing pads and discs as often as every day. Normal brake fluid will also boil quickly at those temps (in reality more like half those temps). Meaning one or 2 hot laps and back to the pits. Upping temp ranges is a limited solution for near stock power. For longevity and reliability you need to get temps down. For lower temps you need more thermal mass and bigger heat sinks -> big discs

At 350hp 260mm big brakes are a joke in stock disc sizes. You need the AP racing 30-40mm thick ones to stand any chance.

If you had experience with big hp and fast driving you would know this..however tries it will find out very fast.

This all probably has no relevance to the OP, who will probably do street at typical blacktop or so powerlevels and the occasional track day (which will feel very fast to them). But that was not what triggered me. What triggered me is stock brakes being fine at high hp. They are not, they are dangerous. Just responding to that bit of misinformation.