Mux213 Levin GTS

[Mux213]

Ian,

Most of my knowladge came from driving the ring alot 3 years ago in my FC and having tim sit next to me helped alot.

Games are nice, I played the ring in GT4 which is fairly accurate so it helps with knowing the track. Forget about learning to drive lines, the real experience is way different from any game in existance. The game doesn't make you feel the crazy height differences, it doesn't tell you where its safe and not safe to brake. For instance, before eiscurve there is a small bump in the road, normally you would brake around that bump but that is a sure bet to run off the track at that point or loose control because there will be 0 grip on your tires for a fews seconds, you have to brake before the bump, go over the bump, and steer into the corner in such a way that you take that corner, the straight that comes after it, and the next corner asif it was one big corner.

So play the game to get to know where all the blind corners lead to, but nothing beats taking it slow the first few laps and having someone with you who tells you how to drive it. Also if you come there for the first time, ask if you can drive along with some guys that have driven there alot. There is ALOT to learn from being a passenger on the first few laps.

[NoHachi]

Watch out with who you pax during a visit to the ring. I was there yesterday with a friend of mine who usually is pretty levelheaded. Even though i was screaming warnings all the time (it was his first visit) and the fact that he had some trackknowledge from the PGR game, it took only 3 laps for the dreaded words "this corner is flatout isn't it?" NO! But it was already to late.
We ended up completely out of balance, on the wrong side of the road heading towards the downhill Eschbach corner. It took a 4 wheel drift and some help form the huge curbstones to get the car settled again..a very near escape from a situation that should have cost him his car at least..

One thing is for sure though.. I am NEVER EVER getting into a car with a complete rookie anymore...very bad for my blood pressure.

[jamiemirror]

NoHachi, imagine that you were at the rear seat...

[Mux213]

Nohachi,

Damn I missed you guys then, thats ashame...

You are 1000% right. Although I do think that a rookie should also have a chance to get someone to show him the ropes, getting in with just somebody is a bad bad idea, especially if that somebody thinks he knows the ring cause he placed it on a bloody PS2 Then again, I would suggest any rookie to first do alot of passenger laps him/herself so the ring becomes formiliar and learn his/her car first on a less dangerous racetrack like Zandvoort. Overconfidence is the one thing that gets you hurt on the ring with only luck protecting you.

So far I've only taken laps as a passenger with people from which I knew they had many laps to their name and are safe drivers. The only times I didn't where way in the beginning driving the RX7 together with Tim, we both were rookies, but we both knew we needed to take it slow and easy. Also having 2 pairs of eyes is a must when you are new to the ring, there is just to much going on, a little help is needed.

Tim has become a very good ringdriver and since we've driven together many times before in the RX7 and later in the Porsche it was no problem for him to be my passenger in the hachi roku. He knew my driving was safe, and he knew how to give me good keypoints to drive the ring safer. Indeed my only mistakes were made in my first lap getting used to the hachi's behaviour on the ring, and later on when Tim was no longer besides me.

The thing that I need to learn most now, is to be more relaxed about the other traffic. Especially when I have a number of bikes around me I get nervous. Its so damn easy to loose track of them and when you do......

Leon also trusted me to drive him around the ring. I was a little more carefull with that then with Tim because Leon can't help me out and having had only 3 laps this year and no laps last year I was hoping my mind knew the ring well enough. And indeed I got it wrong a few times but luckely I am not someone who takes risks, I tent to take full speed corners slowing down way to much instead of the other way around. Leon trusts my driving aswell as we've done many laps together on Zandvoort.

Its going to be interesting to see what Leon does when he finally takes on the ring. He's done a number of passenger laps and only now is starting to think of taking his BMW out on the ring. I'm confident enough to take a passenger lap with him on the ring as I know how well he drives. Having got his racing license this year with 'ease' underlines that, although this can also make someone overconfident. They know their driving skills are good, but they understimate that the ring is very different then say, Zandvoort. I hope Tim will be willing to drive the first laps with Leon to get him around the track safely.

[Mux213]

jamiemirror Wrote:NoHachi, imagine that you were at the rear seat...

Trust me, you do not want the rear seat...

My sister drove along with a mate of mine in the rear seat of his impreza. His rear seat did not stay clean............

[Ian.G]

I'm not implying that the console is going to teach you anything other than a general idea of corner sequences. I am going to be very very careful when I visit the place. Its weird - I've been track driving for about 9 years now but I can't imagine anything at all can prepare you for the mighty ring.

[Mux213]

Ian.G Wrote:I'm not implying that the console is going to teach you anything other than a general idea of corner sequences. I am going to be very very careful when I visit the place. Its weird - I've been track driving for about 9 years now but I can't imagine anything at all can prepare you for the mighty ring.

Hey Ian,

Thats exactly the spirit I'm trying to convey to people. A flat track like Zandvoort or Lelystad or Silverstone(asfar as I know, never driven it) or whatnot does not prepare you at all for the ring. You learn car controll, but you dont learn the ring...

The ring consists of many different types of concrete, each having their own level of grip. This is what writes off many cars of people who thing they can simply drift the ring..
There isn't a flat piece of ground. Coming on from wipperman to eschbach to brunchen you think that its all flat when you are in the car. But I've walked that bit and I can tell you, Mt Akina is more flat then that bit of the ring, just walking from Brunchen to Eschback (the opposite of driving direction) I was dead tired when I finally came to the top, that must be over 15%. Its fun to watch there though but I saw some very dangerous antics there not to mention last year a civic type R went headlong into the guardrail (I only saw him spinning after he hit the guardrail standing at the bottom of brunchen I).
And the worse bit about the ring I think is that most of the road is curved! This really makes for some unpredictable behaviour in your car.

I haven't joined in but every 2nd christmas day a group of dutch guys go to the ring to walk the 22km through the snow, I want to do this maybe this year because you learn so much about the ring just walking over it because you see details you mis when going over it at 100kmph. Very dangerous details....

Taking it slow, not taking risks, and realizing it takes 50+ laps slowly increasing your speed to really learn the ring. Anything else and you'll end up in the guardrail sooner or later..

[NoHachi]

I'm just not getting into a car with a rookie anymore..no matter what they deserve.
People here must by now know how boring I can get whenever the subject Nordschleiffe and beginners comes up.....It wasn't any different with my friend. We were on vacation for two weeks and all the time i was warning him about the drive on the ring that we would do at the end of it.
So he bloody well knew how dangerous the ring could be.

In the end, thinking that you have any controll as a passenger is an illusion. I had zero time to say something to correct him, the line through wipperman was exactly as it should have been, the entry speed into the last right-hander was safe, but then suddenly he spoke that remark and at the same time accelerated...later he said that he was 90% sure that that corner could be taken quickly..and it would have gotten him into serious trouble if it hadn't been for my panic screams. This way he stomped on the brakes earlier and just got the car sideways onto the curbs, without that reaction he would have ended up at the entry of Eschbach at twice the speed he should have. Due to the downhill nature of that section, his brakes would probably have been completely useless.

This is exactly the danger of learning the ring through video games that I have warned people over here for time and time again.

For the people with faster cars...this whole thing was in a bloody boring 90hp Golf. Almost the whole second section of the ring could be taken full throttle in fourth gear without much fuss. I don't want to know what could have happened if he had had more hp under his right foot.

[Mux213]

Hey Nohachi,

Yupz, you have no control as a passenger, thats why I think its important you know the person you are sitting next to and have driven with that person before on less dangerous tracks or if you are 150% sure that person realizes the risk.

I know a guy who is very good and will only sit next to you if you've done plenty of laps and do exactly what he says. Make one mistake and he'll make you stop the car and gets out. Simple as that. Its one thing to take a risk yourself when you are behind the wheel, it is another to have someone else risk your life for you...

Owh, and that golf remark, 100% on the spot. Start with a slow safe car and you'll be allright, start with a high hp car and no brains, death will follow no matter who's in the car with you.

[jamiemirror]

Quote:if it hadn't been for my panic screams

Man, you know that your screams will not improve situation. You are right about situation, but there is no need of screaming, just insyst to stop the car and leave (at the pitstop?). Maybe screaming really makes the reaction of driver worse - people are different.