Imagine

[jamiemirror]

What if Toyota decide to re-make AE86 ?
Again RWD, LSD equipped, IRS.
With 1.6-2.0 range DOHC 16V engine, 150-180hp with ITB+fully mappable ECU.
Stronger brakes, adjustable suspension (coilover option).
Fibreglass panels over lightweight steel frame.

Ok, enough dreaming. But how much it will cost today - and how many people will afford such car ? Just for fun/training, street legal.

[nmwisima]

Last time I talked to the Toyota people at New Avensis presentation in Belgium, they kept repeating "that's not what people wants" & "what we want is to make safe cars"...

However, it is known that Toyota is developing a supercar, probably branded as Lexus, but maybe the revival of the Supra,

while some highly desquised too-wide-to-be-true MR2's are being tested in Nirburgring.

Till then keep dreaming

[NoHachi]

Its already being built, and called a lotus elise (or opel speedster). Look up the price at your local dealership..

[jamiemirror]

You got the picture NoHachi :-)
At the moment Lotus use some Toyota engines also, but all Lotus cars are priced higher than if they were produced by Toyota. What if Toyota make such car (the Speedster have also diesel engine available, terrible even to think about it !). I don't like the idea of using 2.2l sub-150hp engine in such car also. I don't like mid-engine design too (the Speedster is more comparable with MR2 instead AE86). And at last - I don't like price of $30 000.
What will be the fair price for such car built by Toyota these days ? Not Supra but AE86 (Corolla) successor, relative cheap small sport car.

[El_Camino]

NoHachi Wrote:Its already being built, and called a lotus elise (or opel speedster). Look up the price at your local dealership..

Right direction, just cant fit it in/turn the wheel/close the roof .

[NoHachi]

Come on, be realistic.. The goals you set regarding weight etc are not achievable with mass producable techniques at the current safety standards. While you may think that sucks, one of these new cars IS likely to save your life, should anything ever go wrong..In an AE86 you take your chances. Everyone is always full of bravado about lack of safety until they finally crash themselves some time and realise that some extra safety features might not be such a bad idea afterall. Unless you want to die in a car offcourse...wouldn't mind it on a track, but dying in a car due to some drunk running into me or a truckdriver who fell asleep? No thank you.

The time of sub 1000kg cars has passed forever.

I still think the lotus elise is EXACTLY what you described and that its price is spot on what such a car would cost today. The fact that you are making comments about its chassis only makes clear that you havent driven one. Benchracing has its limits you know ;-)

[El_Camino]

NoHachi, I didnt get who you were talking to. Sorry.

I have the feeling some people will be always unsatisfied with what they have, until they realize what it is about.
Talking about a hachi as about a highly performance car and comparing its concept/idea with such ones is not right. The Toyota Corolla is a car, that can be driven 365 days in a year on any surface - you can go to the track as well as you can go fishing with it. Not saying this is the purpose of the owners in this club, but - this is how people are living.

Lotus Elise cannot be driven in the winter - it it too low. You cannot get in with the suit and go to work every day. Me I cannot go in, without the roof open even. This is a weekend car.
Only this makes it a second car and puts the big difference between them.

Hachi cannot perform as an Elise. But Hachi brings a big smile anytime you press the gas. And this anytime you need it. Anytime you are in it. It just reminds you to live.
This is the magic of it. This is the idea of it - have the fun every day non stop.

Sticking to the topic - making a Hachi lighter, with more powerfull engine will still not make it performance car to me. It will only increase the fun .

If Toyota will make it someday? No. On a market, where everybody fights for customers with safety slogans (look at the poor french cars), this will be equal to suicide.

And for AE86 replicas... dont see the market.

[Eircamae86]

I hope they never attempt to make a ae86 sucessor, because if they do it will be shit. As previously mentioned it would have to be a 2ltr to carry all the safety gear, airbags, abs all that rubbish. Toyotas are sooo boring now, no celica, no supra, no decent gti corolla, bring back the ae86/ae92/st165 days

[NoHachi]

Hmmm..mappable ecu/itbs/coilovers..doesn't sound like an everyday car to me..

Heres the catch guys: AE86 fun == light weight. Take any of the light weight hatchbacks from days past and you'll know exactly how low weight translates to steeringfeel/precision, nimbleness and sheer joy. Combined with a capable chassis and a decent engine you end up with a fun car..think about it:
pug205gti: lots of fun
honda crx: lots of fun
corolla Gti: worse then the previous, but a lot better then modern day cars.

That kind of weight, for that kind of money is now completely impossible...quite a shame, but we got a lot in return: more efficient engines, a whole lot of safety, stiffer chassis' and tremendously more capable suspension. A modern day mini, on the same tires as Ivans AE86 completely outperforms it, carrying higher speeds through corners despite its being 1200+kg's and still being a whole lot more comfortable. Is it more fun? overall maybe, sometimes not.

Weight is the key I'm affraid, but why keep complaining when there were such great cars these past few years? Smart roadster? light weight, great chassis and super fuel efficient..Mini: handles like a champ. New mx5: great overall car but no storage space. etc etc..The choices are out there...Ohjeah: Bmw 1 series..probably the closest you'll get. But check out the price..even if you detract the bmw premium.

[SekiguchiUeno]

you are right but not completely,

citroen saxo VTS is very fun car to drive, in RWD trim and better weight distribution 50/50 this are very good replacement.
and the airvbags and some luxurious things are not neccesary, many of the modern low end cars dont have them. also +in weight only in stiffer chassis but this improves handling, i was on nordschleife with Skoda Fabia 1,2 basic model without airbags, electrical etc...
it has realz stiff suspension, i was wondered how good it handles in the corners, on downhill to adenau was equal fast as higher powered cars, with the 1,8 20v VW engine 135ps and improved brakes/tires/susp. it would be perfect, and in RWD trim even better,

it is realistic