4AGE engine tuning discussion

[Mux213]

Ahhh, I think I know what you're saying....

Awell in that way everyone has their own opinion about what is the right way of tuning a car. But fact is, there is no right way. For some people doing to the 4AG what you describe is the optimum they want, for some putting carbs or ITBs on it and making them rev to 11k+ makes their blood go wild. Others again can't stop longing for forced induction. And then there are those that swap it all out for something else.

Point being, which of these options is the right kind of tuning? Well imho none of them and all of them which is why I think this discussion is pointless and we should really get back onto topic

If people want to discuss how to do a low boost turbo charged custom build setup, then that would make an interesting topic, and we should have it. Work it out, see what parts are needed, see what costs are involved.
If people want to discuss how to swap an SR engine in, by all means, topic -> discuss, find out the work involved, cost involved, etc.etc.etc.
If people want to discuss how to tune the N/A 4AG to 11k rpm.. same thing
etc.etc.etc.

Its not a matter of whether its sensible or not, whether its the best solution or not, its a matter of discussing the options, finding out the facts, looking at the costs, letting people that want to spend that money do this, and increasing the knowladge of what we can do with our beloved cars.

Its not about whether we agree with the choice another makes in this. So lets get back on topic and discuss on HOW we can tune our cars. Not on whether its a waiste of money or not

[Abe]

ummm....

I think that buy a hachi not is logic, tune 4age not is logic.... but I like oldschool driving style of hachi-roku and the sound of 4age.... and I like tune it! not is logic and I can spend a lot of money in it? yes, but love my AE and my 4AGE!


Regards


P.S: NA is better

[VladaS2]

Takumi said "Turbo is not good for drifting" So I'd keep it atmospheric.

What oldeskewltoy said (and thanks for detailed info dude!) is good upgrade path but it costs so much that fitting a new engine would make more sense. Specially from the age point of view as well. And specially since I am not emotionally attached.

What engine swap option is not priced though the roof?

[jamiemirror]

Quote:Takumi said "Turbo is not good for drifting" So I'd keep it atmospheric.

You just thrashed all Silvias

[Mux213]

VladaS2 Wrote:Takumi said "Turbo is not good for drifting"

Ah is that why 99% of pro drifters have turbo cars?

Still have to agree with Takumi, nothing beats n/a (though for the first time in my life I'm starting to contemplate this low boost turbo setup). I've always been a supercharger kinda person if forced induction is chosen but only because I believe serious n/a tuning is just not worth my money, but thats just for my situation. With unlimited budget, no forced induction would touch my car but I do not have an unlimited budget...

[NoHachi]

My advice Mux: If you are going to boost you have two options:
1. Stock 4A-GE on minimal boost..and I mean minimal, so you can get away with just a fuel pressure regulator and "maybe" a bipes unit or such. The trick is not getting power hungry..supposedly difficult to do with boost.
2. Any powerlevel higher then 150whp or so..ditch the 4A-GE. You are looking at ECU's, pumps, intercoolers, injectors etc etc etc..everything needs to be tuned by some overpayed monkey and you can throw away any notion you had about true reliability out of the window. A stock SR20 will be rock solid and pump out what you need. A GZE can be tuned a bit and do the same.

Just the typical Keep It Simple Stupid filosophy. Why start fabricating all kinds of stuff, when a 200hp turbo engine with all the bits you need costs just 450E?

[jamiemirror]

Quote:Just the typical Keep It Simple Stupid filosophy. Why start fabricating all kinds of stuff, when a 200hp turbo engine with all the bits you need costs just 450E?

+another 200E delivery
+another XXXXE customs (here we pay taxes for engine like we buy the entire car)
+fabrication of mounts
+matching gearbox (and more fabrication)

That's why. If I have engine/gears combo ready from donor car locally - maybe yes, it will worth. But I'm not blessed to live in Japan. Australia or USA.

4AGTE can achieve 200hp low-presure (0.5bar) if tunned properly. With 9.4CR and 0.5 boost it can run on pump fuel (premium) with stock internals. No real fabrications (all componets are ready at web shops).

[NoHachi]

Sorry Jamie, but you'll have to show me a dynosheet with boostnumbers before I believe those 200hp...0.5bar will net you stockhp*(1+boost)*15% efficiency loss..== 124*(1+0.5)*0.85 = maybe 160hp. And if not, I would be very interested to see the physics if that setup..increasing or consolidating VE with a turbo.

The 450 option is sourcing an engine locally..including gearbox (you don't have to live in Japan to be able to do that, unless some JDM whoredom plagues your mind . Fabrication involved is 100000000000000000000000000000000x more simple then fabricating your own header. Whole swap can be done under 1000 euro's easily..that will nett you 200hp crank without ever opening up an engine or ECU. OEM reliability, no tuning, no tweaking. 250hp is possible for same amount, but tuned so less reliable, but more so the 4A-GTE

You don't have to like it, but it makes perfect sense.

[jamiemirror]

I have no access to 200hp engine+RWD gears for that amount of money here. Give me some example in Europe also ?
About calculations (correct - it's just calculations not dino-proven yet) for 0.5 bar boost - I hope soon we can check it. Needless to say that first 0.3 bar boost will increase power more than expected (yes, there is some physics involved), higher levels are ~linear. Don't forget also that bluetop head is not optimised for power levels under 150hp (too large intake ports).

[NoHachi]

S12,S13, Starion turbo etc etc. Vectra 2000 engines with Getrag boxes, Volvo 240 and 740 turbo engines. There are loads upon loads of engines that are small, compact and good for a lot of boost. A stock volvo 2.1l turbo with Holset turbo and megasquirt will tear your ae86 to shreds and any other car you choose to throw at it afterwards..But it will "still" be cheaper then a 0.5bar boost 4AGE setup even if it is pumping out a reliable 350hp.
I also know of an AE86 coupe being built up with an older supra turbo engine..will it ruin the car? maybe, but we'll be able to see what happens soon enough.
How about a compact V8 that is as light as a 4A-GE but pumps out 195hp..cheaper then 4A-GTE (more fab. needed though)..bit more money and you have a fire breathing lexus V8..again: lightweight.

Yes it will COMPLETELY change the character of the ae86..it now has power..DUH! Offcourse it is changed, thats what happens..

You want a high revving high hp engine? Drop in an S2000 engine, kadett gsi engine, MGTF engine. Hell even a alfa romeo 2 liter would make for a superb package.

The list goes on and on...My only point being..you want power? Its right there, available on the cheap. Remember that the next time the machine shop makes a couple of mistakes causing your engine to blow within 100miles (not directed towards Jamie btw).