CR bluetop EU

[firehawk]

Here's a photo I took today of the 10.0:1 pistons in my AE86. If you compare it to the photo of the 9.4:1 pistons I posted earlier, you can see how the dome on these is almost like a "mirror image" of the dish in the 9.4:1 ones.

BTW, ís there any difference in factory reported maximum torque between the two engines?

[punkara]

meshin Wrote:2 punkara: Mine AE82 is from Swiss and it's MAP, no cat

most probably it is the first years, I belive the Swiss law was applied in some time during 1985, and it was then when the toyotas began to come in with the cat set up.

all 1985 or later Swiss 4AG's I've seen came with AFM cat and egr!
my ae92 is swiss and is afm cat, my ae86 SR was swiss and came with the 4A-C, not the 4A.
There is a slight possibility that your car was imported to Switzerland from another country as well!

I developed my theory about Swiss and Swedish cars coming with the cats and afm, based on what I had seen oer the years, but it was rcently that I had seen a proper proof about that, it was the OEM toyota car part catalouge, where those things were specified as switzerland and sweden, I gues a quick research into the eco laws of those 2 states would also give the necesary proof.
I undrestood that the Euro afm cat egr set ups IS THE SAME as the one in the US, after years ago I was checking in my local toyota dealership for new pistons and he asked me if my pstons were Euro or US California spec.
then I was sure that there were basically 2 set ups of the engine:
No Cat = MAP and no EGR
Cat = AFM and EGR
There MIGHT still be something different (i.e., a third set up) which was the California spec! Now, would that be diference in ECU, EGR's etd. or even a third size of pistons I have no idea, but the mere fact that all the US got the AFM set up, and California has a DIFFERENT requirements than the other 49states, suggest so, UNLESS the 4AG AFM set up was good enough to pas th California emissions anyway, and thus there was no need for a third California set up, which was the case with the 5MGE for example! Then again the difference could also be limited to the catalytic converter itself, between the California and the rest of the US set up?!

The fact is, there IS a reason (other than production costs, as believed by many in the WEB space) for the MAP or the AFM use, and it is simple, the cat set ups used AFM's exclusivley.

[punkara]

meshin Wrote:The numbers are from simulation program .. and I think they are OK.

And about chasis it's my let's say feeling.. no hard facts supporting it. Only that a lot AE82 data says 121HP stock, and AE86 what I've seen 124 HP stock .. So it might be true, and it might be wrong

yes, there is also a difeene between FWD and RWD, where the FWD usually have a bit less HP, and that I belive is not because of different pistons used. The power was a bit less beause the FWD losses less power until getting it to the wheels, unlike the RWD, so I guess that was why Toyota had the AE82's with 3hp less.
For such things, wasting few hours in front of the OEM toyota parts catalouge is very useafull, as one can see which other models shared the same part, or was this part particular for a single model.
this picture above of the 10.0:1 piston shows that they are very similar to the RED top 10.3:1 pistons, which have the dot on the side, (showing in which position the piston should be placed in the cylinder) sticking up as the highest point of the piston, while the one on the pic is actually a little hole... also the dome seems a bit lower compared to the RED top, at least from what I can see on the picture. The RED top are also ceramic coated on top, just like the GZE pistons, while the one on the pic is not! also would be interesting to se if the Blue top had 1.5,1.5,2.8mm thick rings, or 1.2,1.5,2.8 rings as the RED top?
aghhhh.... go figure....

[El_Camino]

@Meshin

I just looked closer at one of the links you posted.

http://my.tele2.ee/levintrueno/engine/engine.htm

Under the second table, called "The following table contains the basic features that differentiate the various 4AGE models.
4AGE"

there is a link telling about the JAP/EU specifications:

(ps. AE86 with MAP injection type (Japan/Europe) - 91 kW (124 hp). Click here for specificatons !)

which takes you to this data sheet:



This should close the chapter and I would say - mistery is solved for me. Thanks for the replies to everybody!

[meshin]

It looks like that now it's a fact that AE86, Bluetop, MAP, no-cat, 124HP have 10:1 Compression ratio...

2 punktara: OK, but the 3 HP difference must come from something, and what firehawk said all ads-up; 3,15-3,20 cc more combustion chamber because of the pistons... because of that 9.4:1 CR and 3 HP less ..

2 firehawk: from where are those 9.4:1 CR pistons. ??

[El_Camino]

Meshin - in this case 9,4 against 10 not the difference in the displacement is making the power. Much more the difference in the CR is increasing power, than it.
As you know Power = Displacement * REVs * Compression.

This 3HP can be easy done by limiting the ECU for example some revs lower... or changing the maps.

[punkara]

meshin Wrote:It looks like that now it's a fact that AE86, Bluetop, MAP, no-cat, 124HP have 10:1 Compression ratio...

2 punktara: OK, but the 3 HP difference must come from something, and what firehawk said all ads-up; 3,15-3,20 cc more combustion chamber because of the pistons... because of that 9.4:1 CR and 3 HP less ..

2 firehawk: from where are those 9.4:1 CR pistons. ??

yes, it does make sense, the FWD used the lower comp pistons, and no cat and egr, gave them 121hp rather than 116hp.
My ae92, which is the early type with T-VIS, and is swiss spec, with cat and egr, comes as 115hp.
the later red top version with swiss spec, gave 112hp on the dyno, so perhaps this is the lowest hp 4ag version, red top WITH swiss-us-swedish spec?!
it makes sense, as the red top losses hp with low C/R pitons, while the non-cat Euro version gives the 100kw, aka 130hp.
Gee, the mystery finally resolved!

[punkara]

OK, here i the proof about Switzerland:

"Legal Instruments in Switzerland
In Switzerland the legal prerequisites for
ambient and indoor air pollution control are
very different: The legal base for the
management of ambient air quality is very
good. On the national level the Federal Law
relating to the Protection of the Environment
(Swiss, 1985) is implemented since 1985."

So yes, the Law was changed in 1985, and with it the Toyota's started to come with the AFM Cat and EGR set up, so BEFORE 1985, it is possible that the cars came with the standard EURO MAP set up without a CAT!

:wink:

[Bad_Dog]

Bluetop and RedTop Hi-Comp Pistons.

If BT is 10:1 these must be almost the same. What do you think?

[dreja]

Punkara and all:


If I look in Toyota epc using my vin number, it says that my car is SDZ market (Swiss and Sweden), production date 03 1985.

My hachi was imported from swiss, it has afm, egr, but NO CATALYTIC converter !!!

I was thinking that the catalytic converter was removed by one of the previous owners, but when I looked in epc I saw that it wasn't. When I try to find a part number for ordering a new catalytic converter it says: Non applicable

Regards
Andrej