Controversial topic - Heel toe makes you slow

[roman]

Hey guys,

I dont have an AE86 but something close. An AA60 Carina with F series live axle rear, beams motor and 6 speed etc. It's pretty close in size / suspension / performance etc to an 86 but a little heavier perhaps (1000kg)

I recently went to a trackday and set a new best time, 2.3 seconds quicker than previous. (Different tires made part of this big difference...)

When I posted a video up though, a few people gave me the hard word for not heel toeing on downshifts and chirping the wheels at times.

Here's the vid:

Here's the thing though - I used to heel toe! And it made my braking zones WAY longer.

Why? Because I only had half of my brain concentrating on the braking, and only half of my foot on the brake pedal. A few trackdays ago I decided to concentrate on braking strongly. No engine braking through gears and then just rev match to the right gear for corner exit mid corner.

Results? Way faster with way shorter braking zones! More consistent braking with fewer errors, and much quicker to resolve any lockups etc.

I found that I was much more ready to react to a wheel locking up, or an understeer or oversteer event. So I could brake a lot later and be confident that I wasnt going to steam straight ahead.

People say
"It upsets the balance of your car"
But so what? If I'm not losing speed and I'm not spinning out, does it matter that the car squirms for 1/10th of a second? Nothing of consequence happens.

"It wears out your clutch"
A clutch is a consumable item, that's why you buy a heavy duty one

Thoughts on this?
Who rev matches and who doesnt, and why.

If I saw this thread a few years ago I'd be hugely insistent on heel toe being mandatory. But my own personal experience since then has differed. Much to my own surprise.

I'm not talking about this in terms of mechanical sympathy, just simply setting a good lap time.

[kjb]

I remember struggling with long, firm braking with heel & toe downshifting, for example after a long straight. Much easier in fast corners when you only need to blip the brake.

I'd say that it's more down to practice than anything. If you're actively thinking about what your feet are doing then you need more seat time

Having said that, watching amateur racing / trackday driving on youtube and in real life I always listen for rev matching on downshifts and I have to say it's pretty rare to see / hear it done!

[ditn]

I dont do it because i want to focus 100% on braking and having brake feel

[totta Crolla]

Like left foot braking it is something you have to do without thought.

[The Doctor]

On the street i do it everytime, to lower the load on the drivetrain while downshifting, at first i did it for fun, now it has become a habit, in my daily i've perfected it to downshifting without using the clutch.
On the track i rarely do it, just try to bring up the revs a bit just before i release the clutch, that's it

[banpei]

I find it almost impossible to heel to toe properly: I have shoe size 13 (47 in EU size) and if I want to do it properly I have to brake with the middle of my foot which is has the least amount of feel of my whole foot... I do blip the throttle after braking to match revs, but I never use the heel to toe combo.

There is an alternative technique with using your instep and then the right side of the foot to blip the throttle so I'm currently practicing that.

[DJexor]

(05-02-2016 09:25 PM)banpei Wrote:  There is an alternative technique with using your instep and then the right side of the foot to blip the throttle so I'm currently practicing that.

Haha doing the same here. Big feet possibilities

[fantapants]

I find I'm much faster and much more comfortable when I heal toe, but I'm lucky enough to be able to do it without much thought.

I'm not sure why as I don't have a strong history with cars etc, but I've always heal toed when driving enthusiastically.

I imagine if it was something I had to think about then yes it would be a limiting factor for sure..

As said above I think the same would be said for left foot braking...

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk

[pack]

IMO with the OEM rubber pads it's almost impossible to heel and toe properly.

I've tried it on my last trackday and i must say braking was horrible... When i was "heel and toe'ing" i was unconsciously pressing the brakes a bit more and basically was unbalancing my car while braking.... So i've stopped it.

After that, i've watched some Tsuchiya videos and with his accelerator pad he can brake and quickly heel a toe without messing with the foot.

My 2 cents

[Dave W]

I have a [6 1/2 USA shoe size] I feel that it's not so much the rubber pads as it is the location of the OEM gas pedal. I fabricated a completely new gas pedal that allowed me to relocate the pedal 35mm closer to the brake padel and slightly lower, so the gas pedal is about even with the brake pedal when under braking.
Made a world of difference. Dave W