DIV 1 rally/track 4AGE(objective +- 130 whp)

[ditn]

Thanks.

it is not 100% sure but it is pretty safe to say that this is indeed the 40/18 mm combo.
I asked the previous owner and he did not do an engine swap.
I will try to check to be 100% sure

@oldeskewltoy
I have read your topic and there is really alot of good info there(still not done)
some things:
pon cams graph is with 12.2 to 1 compression,quite an important detail is missed.
t3 camgears give trouble

I also noticed you said running on 92 octane fuel
is this the same as superplus 98 over here?

@Bean Bandit
thanks for the info,aldo isnt that combo a bit overkill?
the figure i want is arround a good healthy 150hp

sidenotes:
i also found an oldskool ae86 engine builder who did rallycars.
He would look arround for some info
The only thing i will do this coming year is another gear ratio and lsd revision
is anyone familiar with weir performance
Final Drive Gears
Solid Pinion Spacer Kits
MAXGRIP LSD Kits

[Bean]

As mentioned before, YES my setup is a bit overkill for what you are aiming for but then again would keep it as reliable as our engines are in OEM setup.
For what's it worth robokill managed to extract the power you are aiming for with just a set of cams and altered oem exhaust system.
Again your goal is doable without issues in many ways, depends on the budget what extras you will get. Simply drop some mild cams in there along with a thiner headgasket and you could be already there.

I heared only good things about WEIR and plan to fit the same once needed.

Regarding fuel, in the US they take calculate (RON + MON)/2 so it's probably closer to 95 in europe (check at the gas station some state the MON figure as well in very small letters somewhere).
The poncams are nice but 12:1 is rather high for the fuel we have. You could still use them with a lower CR but final figures would be obviously lower.
Another thing to keep in mind is the oem exhaust has one particular bottleneck due to the way it was made. If you look closely you'll see that the loop over the axle wasn't mandrel bent and so causes a restriction. You could redo that part or like robokill on his old exhaust cut just where the 2->1 section is and run a straight pipe with a slightly bigger diameter to the back under axle style.

[ditn]

Im not 100% sure if i am correct herebut if i have 40/18 can i use +EM 40/20 connecting rod set then to be able to install the ae92 mm pistons?
The pistons from em on the website are 82.5 mm,isnt that a borderline overbore?

Indeed,i have his build in my notepad,very impressive what he has done
7 ribbed 40mm crank
81.5 mm toyota pistons
Ported bigport head
182CC injectors
260 in 9mm lift (Catcams: 7105137)
252 out 8.5mm lift (Catcams: 7105137)
Standard intake with open air filter
Standard ECU
Super 98 unleaded fuel

I too think it is possible without going crazy expensive aftermarket,it just alot of exploring and info.

good to know,this will be the only update i will be doing next year performance wise.

Indeed,the graph looked very good but as oldeskewltoy pointed out in his thread,the 12:1 is deceiving and high

The car already had a full janspeed exhaust system when i bought it,so i hope that is taken care of already?

@oldeskewltoy
two important notes i have found in your thread

1:its better to not use ARP head studs
2:I'm using the OEM gasket... because nothing else seals BETTER

can you give a bit more information on this?

[Bean]

yes, with the janspeed exhaust you don't have to worry about that exhaust issue I mentioned.

yes, the +EM 40/20 would allow you to use the AE92 pistons with your 40/18 crank

regarding the gasket it's true the OEM item is very good at sealing due to it's forgiveness of not so clean and plain surfaces... most aftermarket and the 4AFE (0.4mm) headgasket are metal ones which demand a completely clean and planed surface head and block to seal properly but when this is done they seal just as good.

I'm repeating myself now: you could probably just fit a set of cams and get away with it - IMHO this is asking for trouble in the long run. In my case I use the car every day due to it being the only car I have, hence why I rather go overkill than minimum.

Unfortunately you're a bit more than a year late else we could have discussed all this over a tasty Leffe

Depending if I can't resolve my postage issue I might be inclined to throw on my cams on my stock block along with my MS DIYPNP and see what I can get out of it. But wont happen in the next two weeks.

Last but not least - the thing about the ARP head studs is referring to the one bolt which goes through the oil supply passage. The OEM bolts are slanted and therefor offer more are volume for the oil to pass by than ARP version... can't remember where but someone did the calculations once - unfortunately most forums don't allow searching for 3 letter words so it's searching for a needle in a haystack to find that info again.

EDIT: turns out google is your friend once more - thanks assassin10k
http://www.mestiso.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=575

[ditn]

good to know,one issues less.
Thats interesting to know thanks
So as long as your carefull its ok,thats good to know.

Yeah dam you

Ok thats a big reason,no arp head studs then,oil supply passage is very important.

updated
0.8/0.5 mm mm gasket
+EM 40/20
new oem bolts
Hks valve springs =>safety measure
tomei poncams
cam gears
headwork
Combustion chamber deburring
Injectors in the range of 250cc
ae92 pistons or equivalent
4A-G DIYPNP

[Bean]

ditn Wrote:good to know,one issues less.
Thats interesting to know thanks
So as long as your carefull its ok,thats good to know.

Yeah dam you

Ok thats a big reason,no arp head studs then,oil supply passage is very important.

updated
0.8/0.5 mm mm gasket
+EM 40/20
new oem bolts
Hks valve springs =>safety measure
tomei poncams
cam gears
headwork
Combustion chamber deburring
Injectors in the range of 250cc
ae92 pistons or equivalent
4A-G DIYPNP

good choice on the DIYPNP - will let you know in a month or so when I finished assembling it... personally I went for it due to the neat look and ready available addons to allow it for sequential fueling and ignition (although I'm going wasted there). Regarding the +EM rods you'll have to check with Jeff on the schedule - I know he received two sets so far - only one available to the public but he should get a big bunch (-1 for me) sometime early next year.

regarding the ARP bolt it boils down to the following the smallest area they maintain for oilflow is bigger than the smallest area the oil has to go through in the head but clearance around the stem of the stud is half that of OEM bolts (in numbers just 0.55mm for the ARPs)

[oldeskewltoy]

Quote:@oldeskewltoy
I have read your topic and there is really alot of good info there(still not done)
some things:
pon cams graph is with 12.2 to 1 compression,quite an important detail is missed.
t3 camgears give trouble



@oldeskewltoy
two important notes i have found in your thread

1:its better to not use ARP head studs
2:I'm using the OEM gasket... because nothing else seals BETTER

can you give a bit more information on this?


Ok thats a big reason,no arp head studs then,oil supply passage is very important.

Concerning camshafts... do some research into dynamic compression ratio... in particular @ the intake closing event.

If our 92 is close to your 95... and you have 98 available too....


the temp differences (210, 180, 170) is coolant temp.

You can see that you can run significantly more dynamic compression ratio (DCR) with lower temps... AND/OR higher octane fuel


The T3 pulleys didn't fit my Web camshafts correctly. I had to enlarge the hole in the back of the pulley to accept the pin.


ARP is very good stuff, and there is nothing wrong with using ARP. The factory head bolt is a very good product too. My opinion of the need for ARP comes to me from Loynings. They only use the ARP stuff on Formula Atlantic engines... and NOT all of those! If the engine is used as a part of the chassis, as in the F/A cars, the heads would get ARP studs. But frequently, on installs or use not in an Atlantic car, the head would be installed with headbolts. There is one potential problem with using ARP (not an oiling issue), on SOME peoples 4AGE engines, the head stud under the distributor is too tall, and the distributor gear hits the stud.

Quote:Im not 100% sure if i am correct herebut if i have 40/18 can i use +EM 40/20 connecting rod set then to be able to install the ae92 mm pistons?
The pistons from em on the website are 82.5 mm,isnt that a borderline overbore?

yes using +EM rods allows you to use OEM cast high comp (10.3 to 1) pistons.

Reason I recommend the +EM piston: 1) is they have some room for machining to "adjust" them to exctly what you, or your machinist wants, 2) the oiling from the rings to the piston internal structure are superior in design, and material - so far less chance of ring land failure. I believe the +EM pistons are also lighter... lighter means safer because the pistons mass @ 7500 rpm, is what can tear the crank and rods to shreds, lighter pistons means MUCH easier for crank and rods to survive

yes - stock bore is 81mm, so 82.5 is SUBSTANTIAL overbore. Send Jeff an email, ask him if the piston is available in standard bore, and 1/2mm overbore

[PatrickAE86]

In the US, octane ratings in unleaded fuels can vary between 86 and 87 AKI (91-92 RON) for regular, through 89-90 AKI (94-95 RON) for mid-grade (European premium), up to 90-94 AKI (95-99 RON) for premium (European super).

suposing that US 92 octane = 92 AKI = about RON 97 in EU standards??

[Bean]

this seems to be more or less spot on from what you desire with not much extra parts
for reference his CR is probably around 10.8:1 +/-0.2

from another forum Wrote:

This was my first-ever complete engine rebuild. I had the machine work done, but I did the complete assembly myself, except for the pistons onto the rods (I was going to , but they did it for me, probably due to the balancing.)

[list]
[*]7-rib block
[*]OEM 0.5mm (first oversize) 10.3:1 pistons (from GM dealer for the Prism GSI).
[*]TRD 0.8mm head gasket (should've gone with a 0.6mm!)
[*]new Supertech valves (standard size)
[*]bronze valve guides
[*]smoothed intake/polished exhaust ports (I just cleaned up the casting flash and ugly bumps)
[*]Illegal Garage flywheel/clutch (lightweight!)
[*]OEM ECU
[*]no-name cone filter
[*]home-built exhaust welded from 2" mandrel bends.
[/list:u]

Fast-forward another year or so:



What changed?
I talked to Bob, and he gave me some GREAT advice!!
So, this is what I ended up doing:

[list]
[*]4-1 header (BBP, modified to not rub the steering rack or the floor.)
[*]SARD adjustable fuel pressure regulator.
[*]TODA cams. 264 intake, 256 exhaust.
[*]NST adjustable cam gears.
[*]had a buddy lathe up some new knock pins for the cams. the NST gears have a hole that is too big, and could allow a theoretical 2° or more difference in cam timing.
[*]when I did the valve shims, Every single one of each bank (intake or exhaust) was identical, at the minimum spec. no "it's in the range, close enough for me."
[*]electric fan
[*]installed power steering.
[/list:u]

first pull at the dyno was 130.4. twelve runs later, and the cams were exactly where TODA said to put them. I advanced ignition timing by 4°, and added 2psi of fuel to get the 133.0.

--sarge