FWD low on grip - Solved !

[EE80Liftback]

Hey guys,

I know this is not the 1.3 "powered" automatic tranny FWD forum but I also know that there are some guys on this forum who will be able to give sensible answers to my question... So please bear with me a sec.

The "problem" I have is that if I push my car moderatly fast over a roundabout or trough a corner you directly start to feel losing grip on the front wheels. I know my car is not a racing car but this happens just about as soon as you keep on throttling only a little in the corners.

I had noticed this a couple of times and I even felt it might be getting worse but I thought that it was just me getting used to other cars handling better... However, my dad rang me yesterday and told me he noticed the exact same thing while driving.

The car has been driving for almost a year after standing still for 2 years now, it's never been re-aligned but it does keep on going straight if you take your hands of the steering wheel at 140km/h. There's a little play on the steering box (that might also be getting slightly worse). Besides this I've seen that the rubber bushings for what I think is called the anti roll bar (the thing connecting the left and right rear suspension) show cracks... However, the rear end doesn't seem to give me a problem in corners.

The tires are getting old due to standing still and low mileage but they're not worn. There are two Vredensteins and two Michelins I don't which ones are on the front.

I might need to check tire pressure but I think it should be ok. My dad thought it might just be normal handling for a car with automatic gearbox but that doesn't seem fair to me.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Siert

[DJexor]

Have you tried it with better tires? If you have the car in ZH you can drive it with my tires to try.

I had old tires renewed by Toyo Proxes T1R. Such a difference!! It's like stickygum

[Mux213]

Yeah my guess would be tires aswell, with the car having stood still for so long and the cold temparatures these days, I bet grip on those poor things is next to zero even if you have plenty of profile left on those things. Its not only profile that determines grip you knows, if the rubber itself drys out, combined with the temparature going to near freezing, bye bye grip...

And it is FWD...

[NoHachi]

Performance of car =
50% driver
35% tires
10% allignment
5% suspension setup

Also a nice guideline to start troubleshooting

[EE80Liftback]

NoHachi Wrote:50% driver

OK, I might suck but that doesn't make the car loose grip at low speed and my father notices it too... So I guess I can interpret your comment as another vote for checking the tires first :-)

DJexor: Thanks for the offer But my car is not in ZH and I think it has smaller tires anyway so it wouldn't be a fair comparision.

I'd be quite happy if you guys are right because I was afraid my front shocks might be worn...

[NoHachi]

Quote:OK, I might suck but that doesn't make the car loose grip at low speed and my father notices it too... So I guess I can interpret your comment as another vote for checking the tires first Smile

You would be right, if you rule out driver influence, then the next thing to look at are the tires. Are they still ok? Are you using them optimally (alignment).

Comparing between different tires should not be that big a problem..tire compound is about 80% of the equation..about 20% of performance has to do with size/rims etc etc. Remember that with equal vehicle weight, contact path size stays exactly the same irrespective of tiresize.

[Spy]

If the rear anti roll bar loose effacity, it can be normal that, you loose grip on the front. I broken mine on my caterham during a race and I completly lost the front...

[NoHachi]

Somehow I suspect that the rear arb is not an issue here..

[EE80Liftback]

No I just stated the dry rubbers to be complete but I don't feel that replacing them will make a significant difference as well...

This problem is significant enough to be noticed while using the car as a daily driver, so it almost has to be something simple. I sort of hope most of you guys are right and it's the tires...

[EE80Liftback]

This question might be a bit preliminary since I haven't checked my current tires yet but I might want to drive to Danmark in two weeks so I need to get new tires next week if I want to be prepared for cold weather or even snow.

I made this list from autobandenmarkt.nl not sure if I'm going to order there through AEU86 or just get them from my local garage guy who has to mount them anyway (and is not in the autobandenmarkt garage list).

Toyo
330 155/80 R13 79T
Bij ons maar EUR 32,60

Vredestein
SPRINT+ 155 R13 78T
Prijs uit prijslijst*: EUR 39,00 !
Bij ons maar EUR 35,10

Goodyear
GT 2 155/80 R13 79T
Prijs uit prijslijst*: EUR 52,50 !
Bij ons maar EUR 36,40

Bridgestone
B 330 EVO 155/80 R13 79T
Prijs uit prijslijst*: EUR 49,00 !
Bij ons maar EUR 37,30

Dunlop
SP 10 3e 155/80 R13 79T
Prijs uit prijslijst*: EUR 45,50 !
Bij ons maar EUR 38,50

Pirelli
P 3000 155/80 R13 79T
Prijs uit prijslijst*: EUR 43,00 !
Bij ons maar EUR 38,80

Michelin
ENERGY E3B 155/80 R13 79T uitloop
Prijs uit prijslijst*: EUR 55,00 !
Bij ons maar EUR 49,80

It might also be nice to have "All weather tires", would be good for trip trough Germany (insurancy companies seem to like winter tires over there). But would of course be slightly less preferable in summer (although I'm not racing the car)... Buying two sets of tires is not an option. So here are two reasonable all-weather tire choices:

Vredestein
QUATRAC 2 155/80 R13 79T , M+S keurmerk
Bij ons maar EUR 48,70

Toyo
Vario-V1 155/80 R13 79T, M+S keurmerk
Bij ons maar EUR 42,40

I've filtered out all the really cheep ones and decided I'd go for Toyo if I want a cheaper tire just because that would look quite cool :-)

My father is usually very carefull with spending money but he always wants Michelin and is quite sure he is not happy about the Pirelli's currently on his car (but then he drives french cars :-) )

So the question is simple: If I go for new tires which ones to buy?