Heel Toe?

[cavey]

Double clutching and heal-toe shifting is fun, even in a suzuki alto (noth that i'm good at it, but just practicing on slow roads to shift up and down using double clutching and throttle blipping at first is great!)
(hmm, maybe not such a constructive post... oops )

Here's a nice link about heel-toe and just in general shifting techniques:
Shifting Technique

[Apolan]

Mux, yes, seems like we're talking about the same thing from different ends

[banpei]

Apolan Wrote:I don't think you use heel&toe so you "dont slow down", because when your braking into a corner, you are slowing down, and you never brake with your engine when driving hard - its the brakes that should exactly dose your stopping power.

You're correct about that, but what I meant is that the car slows down extra due to revs not matching which is not really the situation you want with a rwd entering the corner...

It is also not very nice for your clutch and synchros if you're driving hard, but if you would drive in granny-mode it wouldn't matter anyway: difference between 1800 and 2500 revs isn't that much. >

[Miguel - Newera]

If you only blip the throttle on downchanges, this will cause wear on your synchros. Eventually the cones will wear and you'll have no synchro left on some gears. This is why a lot of older cars have crunchy gearboxes, especially if they're driven fast regularly!

It's not hard to learn to downshift properly by double de-clutching - and once you know, it's second nature! It's also a lot quicker to downchange, if you've got say - a tired gearbox as you won't have to wait for a tired synchro to work. You just release the clutch quickly, because the whole mechanism is already spinning at the speeds it needs to.

Once you know how to double de-clutch properly on downchanges, then do it whilst you're pressing the brake with your right toe (And use your heel to operate the throttle).

Remember - Before Synchromesh was invented, everyone used to have to synchronise gears, maybe your grandma could do it - so can you!!!

It's also useful to know how to synchronise gears for other reasons: For example, if you get a broken clutch release mechanism you can get home, without grinding gears (And potentially breaking the gearbox if you force changes.. ).

Simply start the car in 1st at traffic lights - and synchronise all gear shifts by blipping correctly in neutral on up & downshifts. It's a useful technique to learn. Try it on an empty road, feeling for when the gears click into place, as the engine revs (That you blipped to) drop.

Here's a slightly amusing story about driving clutchless:
At university, as a peniless (& lazy - 'cos I couldn't be arsed to replace the bent clutch fork!) student - I drove a £75.00 Citroen 2CV for 3 months without a clutch pedal....Much to the amusement of friends. One day in Central London the throttle jammed wide open. Being late for wherever we were getting to, I used the ignition switch to modulate the engine power... still clutch pedal less, of course! We were in hysterics...

Later, with 5 of us in the car on the way back to Brighton, although I'd released the stuck throttle, the cable snapped. We couldn't just leave the car and had no money for a train anyways, so I took off & tied my belt to the throttle cable and pulled that through the floppy window to operate the throttle - We still got home no problem. I kid you not, lol!! Ah, fond old memories. That old 2CV was great fun and we were foolish

[DJexor]

Miguel - Newera Wrote:Personally, I do it always, when driving a manual car. It's become 2nd nature - I hate the new paddle shift transmissions that do this for you!

yeah and I hate those new cars too!! Stupid things dont react quick enough. You heel the throttle and you have to wait for half a second before it finally reaches higher RPMs... Heavy flywheel probably ? but well.. thats why i love the AE86! Its just so much fun to learn these techniques in an AE86

[Apolan]

hahahah Miguel what a story!!

[Miguel - Newera]

Opp's Re-post - See below.

[Miguel - Newera]

DJexor Wrote:

Miguel - Newera Wrote:Personally, I do it always, when driving a manual car. It's become 2nd nature - I hate the new paddle shift transmissions that do this for you!

yeah and I hate those new cars too!! Stupid things dont react quick enough. You heel the throttle and you have to wait for half a second before it finally reaches higher RPMs... Heavy flywheel probably ? but well.. thats why i love the AE86! Its just so much fun to learn these techniques in an AE86

A few weeks ago, I was offered the chance to drive the latest Jap Performance cars by a Journalist friend who lives out here. These included the Evo X SST, Lexus IS-F and the R35 GT-R (I could have refused, but would you refuse - HELL No!! - We had a great day out with those press cars! )

Fantastic performance. The Evo was of course seriously fast, and the IS-F & GT-R being Japan's highest power production cars (417 bhp and 480 bhp) could hardly be called unexciting! Each were excellent cars in their own right, but their transmissions bugged me - leaving me wondering if they'd make manal models for the more capable drivers who wanted to do some of the work!
These transmissions would decide if it was "appropriate" to change down, sometimes refusing to, because doing so would take the gear down close to (But not at!) the red line. So If say I was changing down for a corner, just as I was about to apply the brakes - sometimes the car would refuse to change down - giving me a little audiable warning to tell me "no".. The IS-F was particularly errant, then the SST Evo X. The GT-R is the only one that worked pretty good, although at slow speeds the transmission was a bit un-smooth.
Then the other bugbear was that none of these can allow you to change down from say 7th gear to 4th (Say you were cruising at low rpm on the highway, and a fast car went past..... NNnnnnnnnnnneeeeough!!! = Red flag to a bull scenario). In Manual mode, they required you to change down sequentially for the gear desired. If in Auto mode on the IS-F it would do it for you... If you want to kick the clutch to get the back end out, or to make the turbo's spool quicker (Not that the GT-R or Evo X have any significant lag, mind...), or just to be a bit of a hooligan, you can't. Clutch? What clutch - it's electronically controlled, sir!
With all the other electronic trickery, such as anti yaw, traction control, etc. even more drivability was taken away from the driver too.
I couldn't help thinking that for people who really want to drive these cars, something's lacking.

Give me a nice light raw car where I have to change gears myself, can slide it if I want and have to do the job of traction control with my foot! All this electronic stuff is only great for people who never went to the trouble of learning how to drive and want to look like they know. Personally, I preferred to switch the GT-R to R mode suspension and gearbox mode, with traction control completely off... Only then, could I enjoy making the rear end do some of the steering with the throttle! - That was more like it...

Guess the raw nature and the emotion it leaves you with, after a good hard drive is one of the reasons I'd choose my AE86 to a new GT-R..

[Apolan]

Man i think we all would

[raki]

Imo the main reason for heel and toe is the the use of ceramic metal clutch discs without springs in race cars. It´s absolutely impossible to brake hard and shift down without this technic, cause the rear end of a rwd car will immediately block and break out.

Greets raki