Hello from the UK

[BenR]

Sorry, dont want to upset owners, but please understand that i am not loyal to any brand as such. If its a good engine i'll say its good and work with it, if it s crap, well....i'll point out just how crap.....but i'll still try and work with it if i cant convince owners lol.

sad to say it guys, but hondas are where its at. B16a/18c/20, K20a and F20c is where the proper engines are.

[peter møller]

No need to excuse for your opinions.....i think it´s lovely to see someone critisize the 4AGE on a forum where everybody runs them. If no one had a second opinion on the 4AGE, we would all be misguided into thinking that this is the only engine worth running/tuning, whereas some constructive critiscm will do us all some good.
Now what you really need to do BenR, is to give us all some good advice on what to do for us meer mortals, with limited cash flows.
How can we make the best of what we have....now that would be cool.

[Ivan141]

Amen, I dont need an NA 250hp 4AGE, but a reliable and affordable alternative to a 20v would be interesting.

[BenR]

Thanks guys,

advice on how to improve your setup with minimal costs i can help with no problem, but do remember that bhp costs sadly and there is only so far you can go before you end up spending alot of money lol.

In most cases now, an engine swap is about the best route to take.

[Mux213]

BenR,

Cool info man. No prob on saying other engine's are better because frankly, other engines are better. In the end though, when you look at tuning and performance, its easy to say which engine is better then anothing on paper, simply by looking how well it produces power compared to fuel consumption and weight.

When we look at which engine is better because of the way it feels in my eyes is purely subjective. I love the 4AG simply because of the way it sounds, and the way it makes my ae86 run. I know its not the best around, but hey its 20 odd years old and it fits my hachi just fine!

Its basically comparing apples and pears (i'm sure I spelled that wrong). Its the same like comparing a turbo charged engine and an NA engine. Some people swear by turbo charged engines, some people only want to go NA. Is one truly better then the other? Does it even really matter?

In the end for me, I would like to stick with 4AG just because I like the engine on a purely subjective basis. And as such I would like to know what I can do to tune it without spending way to much cash. If that means designing some cool stuff and splitting the costs among a couple of people that want the same why not. It probably means someone else has already done so and we can simply use that experience. In the end I may deside to go 4AGZE, I'm not sure about that one yet. But we'll see what comes along in the future

[peter møller]

BenR Wrote:Thanks guys,

advice on how to improve your setup with minimal costs i can help with no problem, but do remember that bhp costs sadly and there is only so far you can go before you end up spending alot of money lol.

In most cases now, an engine swap is about the best route to take.

In many cases an engine swap will be the most cost effective way to gain Bhp...fast. But with all the rules and regulations in Denmark(and other countries), this is just not an option.

Therefor optimizing what I have is the only sensible thing to do, when i want to run the car as a daily driver without having to look over my shoulder for the police on daily basis.

[SekiguchiUeno]

great thread

i have thinking about this a while ago.
the prices for 20v are to expensive, also is it worth?
the bottom end is nearby the same as on the ae92 16v,
only advantage of 20v is the VVTi that makes him very good street driveable, then the wilder cams and the increased intake throught the ITB.

but many peoples says(billzilla) the 20v is not so good for pover gains over 110hp per litre in case of bad turbulency in the intake but for the power to 100hp its better.

you also says is better to build an plenham collector behind the Throttle body and i agree, the flow in the head ports will not be disturbed throught the butterflies, its similar construction as on turbo engines.

also my dream setup:

92 bottom end: crank, conrods balanced, lightened, polished
increased compression ratio(max 11,5 NA supercharge throught forged pistons Toda, but now i want the AWT pistons with 1mm overbore(i wait for more info and pricing)

small port head-polished ported
242ratio cams from bluetop,

celica 60mm TB and custom made plenham collector:

an guy from denmark has build an monster hachi with turbo cca450hp
and an custom 7,2L plenham with big bore TB. i think it can be used also on an NA engine.

i have not any idea about ecu, i am not sure if the standart ecu and injectors can handle this setup.

it might be possible to gain 160hp and good elasticity about wide rpm band?

what yours opinion about this setup?

[Blueneon]

See? Told you he new his stuff.

Ben, whats your opinion of the CA18ET (8v) that i have in my Silvia? the DET (16v) is rubbish at the bottom end (made of chocolate IMHO)

[BenR]

I'm an NA man aswell, i find the tuning more rewarding and i rarely dabble in FI, if i do its usually superchargers.

The 4age suits the corolla so well, its a great match, and it does sound different to any other engine. Its just missing 400cc lol.

Ultimately the corolla has such a nice chassis that a circut version of it should really have no less than 260bhp and running on a nice wide track with a set of fat slicks.

I think many people are bypassing the ease and cost effectiveness of keeping a plenham setup. This will allow you to keep the std ecu, TB, loom etc etc, air filter kits etc. Depending if the std manifold can be reworked to a suitable level for you guys, or one fabricated for little cost it could give you 80-85% of the benefits of throttle bodies for power with less hassle.

If you guys want i am very happy to work on a project like this with you.

mux213 Wrote:BenR,

Cool info man. No prob on saying other engine's are better because frankly, other engines are better. In the end though, when you look at tuning and performance, its easy to say which engine is better then anothing on paper, simply by looking how well it produces power compared to fuel consumption and weight.

When we look at which engine is better because of the way it feels in my eyes is purely subjective. I love the 4AG simply because of the way it sounds, and the way it makes my ae86 run. I know its not the best around, but hey its 20 odd years old and it fits my hachi just fine!

Its basically comparing apples and pears (i'm sure I spelled that wrong). Its the same like comparing a turbo charged engine and an NA engine. Some people swear by turbo charged engines, some people only want to go NA. Is one truly better then the other? Does it even really matter?

In the end for me, I would like to stick with 4AG just because I like the engine on a purely subjective basis. And as such I would like to know what I can do to tune it without spending way to much cash. If that means designing some cool stuff and splitting the costs among a couple of people that want the same why not. It probably means someone else has already done so and we can simply use that experience. In the end I may deside to go 4AGZE, I'm not sure about that one yet. But we'll see what comes along in the future

[BenR]

Setup sounds good!

With a few adjustments it will be a great street motor.

SekiguchiUeno Wrote:great thread

i have thinking about this a while ago.
the prices for 20v are to expensive, also is it worth?
the bottom end is nearby the same as on the ae92 16v,
only advantage of 20v is the VVTi that makes him very good street driveable, then the wilder cams and the increased intake throught the ITB.

but many peoples says(billzilla) the 20v is not so good for pover gains over 110hp per litre in case of bad turbulency in the intake but for the power to 100hp its better.

you also says is better to build an plenham collector behind the Throttle body and i agree, the flow in the head ports will not be disturbed throught the butterflies, its similar construction as on turbo engines.

also my dream setup:

92 bottom end: crank, conrods balanced, lightened, polished
increased compression ratio(max 11,5 NA supercharge throught forged pistons Toda, but now i want the AWT pistons with 1mm overbore(i wait for more info and pricing)

small port head-polished ported
242ratio cams from bluetop,

celica 60mm TB and custom made plenham collector:

an guy from denmark has build an monster hachi with turbo cca450hp
and an custom 7,2L plenham with big bore TB. i think it can be used also on an NA engine.

i have not any idea about ecu, i am not sure if the standart ecu and injectors can handle this setup.

it might be possible to gain 160hp and good elasticity about wide rpm band?

what yours opinion about this setup?