MCNSPORT latest ae86 project **MUST SEE**

[MCNSPORT.com]

Update time - I know i always say it, but we are so busy here it's hard to get around to getting the pics done for you guys!!

MCNSPORT.com CarbonFibre AE86 RHD dashboard fitted. Just waiting on some new trick black bolt to arrive, to hold it in.. so the in the pics its just held in with tape as I forgot to take them when fitted probably.





/Peden
MCNSPORT.com

[MCNSPORT.com]

Here's a pictures of the carbon dash fitting nicely around one of our AE86 MCNSPORT cages:


/Peden
MCNSPORT.com

[MCNSPORT.com]

worholm Wrote:hey d-mac what cint of suspention ar you yousing in the rear of the car.. it in not s13 coilovers in the back?
and all the arms is it somthing you have on yor website? regards

Hey Worholm,

sorry only seen your question now

we are using ae86 TRD shock absorbers on the rear with a coilover conversion

we may be changing this car to run our new AVO/MCNSPORT rear coilovers

Darren

[ZaX]

people don't understand how much fabrication is done on this picutre, untill they start to do it by them selves.

I do and give it a massive respect. [/img]

[improvedae86]

ZaX Wrote:

people don't understand how much fabrication is done on this picutre, untill they start to do it by them selves.

I do and give it a massive respect. [/img]

Very clean build must have taken many hours

On that pic what happens to the toe/caster when the subframe moves since the arm isnt located on the subframe ?

That area can be a real pain i had lots of arm bushing issues with the s series rear end due to the stress places on them when you get above a g , ended up using a mix of bushes and pillows since you cannot fully solid joint a rotating twisting hub on any five link. Full of problems those rear ends really cannot wait to build the next one with a more modern multi link that fits alot easier.

And you might want to think about engine movement on stock mounts the CAS may get very close to that radiator under torque twist.

Lastly how much does the dash weigh ? its a wet lay with csm behind the first layer of uni i guess ?

[MCNSPORT.com]

improvedae86 Wrote:

ZaX Wrote:

people don't understand how much fabrication is done on this picutre, untill they start to do it by them selves.

I do and give it a massive respect. [/img]

Very clean build must have taken many hours

On that pic what happens to the toe/caster when the subframe moves since the arm isnt located on the subframe ?

That area can be a real pain i had lots of arm bushing issues with the s series rear end due to the stress places on them when you get above a g , ended up using a mix of bushes and pillows since you cannot fully solid joint a rotating twisting hub on any five link. Full of problems those rear ends really cannot wait to build the next one with a more modern multi link that fits alot easier.

And you might want to think about engine movement on stock mounts the CAS may get very close to that radiator under torque twist.

Lastly how much does the dash weigh ? its a wet lay with csm behind the first layer of uni i guess ?

Hi improvedae86

Thank you for your comments and yes it has taken many hours

This subframe will not move it is essentially solid therefore it eliminates toe and wheelbase change commonly found with weak rubber bushes

The Toe arm is located on the subframe however, it is the small Traction arm that we have located on the body. I have not seen a s14 subframe mounted i the rear of an ae86 before, i reckon this is because of the level of work involved. The s13 subframe fits much easier but the s14 has superior geometry

depending on the amount of suspension travel you want to use you can as we have use all pillow ball links on the rear without any problems. all the high end drift Silvias use this system and it is well proven to be effective. The pillow balls have enough movement in them in all directions so as not to cause binding

I have seen your posts on another thread about roll centres and this was a concern to us also but through our vast experience with this issue we feel we have made the right decisions for our customer. We will run no rear sway bar and softer springs than usual. Our low roll centre will act as a sway bar itself. This was our customers decision to use this rear end and we have mounted it as high up in the chassis as possible believe me

We are using Nismo engine and transmission mounts so movement should be very little

I have no idea how much the dash weighs but you can lift it with 2 fingers. Composites and the like are not my speciality

Regards

Darren
MCNSPORT

[Eric]

Quote:I have not seen a s14 subframe mounted i the rear of an ae86 before, i reckon this is because of the level of work involved. The s13 subframe fits much easier but the s14 has superior geometry

So, as far as i know the s13 and s14 rear subframe are basically the same. difference is in the lengt and shape of all the arms attached to it.

[improvedae86]

Darren with regard to all the S series rear ends apart from using different suspension arms all the location points are the same , i lined up s13 s14 s15 subframes and the main difference is diff mounting change and the different designed camber arm to clear the shock/spring. The reason most people would go with the s13 might be that there more available since larger build numbers of the cars and with the two different length diff housings in ca to sr cars making many ratios available.Personally i run a adaptor spacer so i can change between the two with the same tailshaft. If you stick all the point on the subframe and hub into any suspension program you will find that binding in direction rotation isn't a problem if all arms are adjusted to there standard length. With standard points the ratio between them within standard amounts of travel will work fine , but if you change any of the lengths the ratio is out and them movement/distances of travel will cause more a pulling action then binding.

Anyway under the weight of the vehicle the weak mounts would just bend/flex which causes the geometry change that might be worst than any hope that solid has in performing better and controlling over rubber. Then main issue really comes with the rear design being great at high ride heights and progressing worst in camber change and toe closer to full bump. I double checked by graphing the changes at different ride heights with string lines after testing a few times and it confirmed the problem. I relocated a point then changed to different bushing's and pillows in location's where there would be a problem if i needed to adjust geometry. This might not be a problem in your country just the track's here are so rough that worn t50's will alway's pop out of gear :wink: here most people are aiming for between 140-210hz wheel frequency, what is the planned rate for this car ? and its usage.

I find it interesting that you want to control the roll moment without exerting any roll stiffness with a bar . No matter how low the center of gravity i wonder what effects in a 53/47 balanced car it has on the roll axis though transient movements where forces of change in direction add to the loading. How is a soft rate going to control that ? do you have active suspension planned ?

[MCNSPORT.com]

Hello again improved ae86,

I was not aware that all the mounting points on the S series subframes were the same, I was given information from a person who knows a lot about Silvias that the s14 rear end was the best one to use..........

My expertise lies is getting Drift cars to perform well. Please remember this is a drift car and there is no books to follow on how to set up drift suspension as opposed to race car suspension when you can find a book about every detail,

With the centre of gravity and roll centre being so low there is little lateral weight transfer especially in a full drift, this makes the car very loose. we counteract this by reducing the spring rate, damping and tyre pressure so the car becomes tight under throttle pulling itself forward and stabilizing the drift so to speak

Adding stiffer springs and a sway bar reduces lateral weight transfer further and make the car incredibly loose both off and on throttle thus creating a slow drift car that tends to over rotate and spin out

trust me we have done a lot of testing in the USA and this is how it works best for drift applications

[improvedae86]

Well if you take a look at the part number there is
s13 subframes
55400-S13001
55400-S13002
55400-S13004
55400-S13005
difference are on the hicas and the diff type ca / sr etc
all use the same arms across the model range
s14 subframe
55400-S14001
55400-S14003
55400-S14004
55400-S14005
once again difference in the diff m/t to a/t and all use the same arms across the range apart from the caster s arm vs s13
s15 subframe
55400-S15001
55400-S15003
now the lower control arm is different since using a larger/wider bush but all the other arms are the same as s14

So i have no idea why the s14 one would be any different to s13 or s15 as far as drift ability ? since same basic subframe geometry .Most track related people would be going with the s13 ca diff housing since it's the smallest and is lighter than the other's with more ratio available down the truck 4.6.

I wonder how low the centre of gravity will really end up to be and how you can set the subframe's roll center in set geometry to the correct height for this without the vehicle being full assembled. If you modeled the car and every component in CAD with there weights and locations please post it as it would be most interesting. I have seen this done on a few race vehicle's and there is alway's something else that need to be added / changed so it never equals 100%. And the stiffness rate need to reduce the transfer was ?

This reminds me of what Rhys Millen was telling drifters here after driving there cars , but with using larger bar sizes.