Rotary AE86?

[Apolan]

speed inc. im not going to do this swap, as i just finnished rebuilding my bluetop engine and im hoping it wont give me any trouble for the next couple of years..

But rather out of curriosity i started this thread. Its not about how much power you can make, but rather "completing/perfecting" the AE, to polish out all the weakpoints of the car - so it becomes perfect for what its already supposed to be. Surely this might be a bit subjective but not much if you understand what ae was set out to do. A little like miata - perfect for what it is supposed to be.

That being said, a perfected hachi would be:
-900 kg
-sharp, crispy, responsive and high revving 160 hp (NA)
-better tranny with a bit shorter throws and a bit shorter gearing (4.7 r&p)
-keeping the solid axle, suspension geometry, LSD
-moving the weight a bit further back
-and a bit stiffer chassis

In that respect the 13b+tranny are perfect. The only weakpoint in this philosophy seems to be the reliability&economy issue. The hachi was created to offer all of the pleasures of a genuine sports car, while keeping the expenses low, so an average joe could enjoy it. Still i can't shake off the feeling that theese issues are a bit exagarated. It just doesnt make sense to me that such a simple and brilliant design, which was perfected during three decades by a giant like Mazda, would be causing so many problems if done and cared for right.

And sure you might as well buy an FC which is also a very cool car, probably right after the ae on my list.. But than you'd have to go turbo and i just cannot learn to love "the snail".

[NoHachi]

Are you absolutely sure that 13Bs are lighter then a 4A? If I remember right, they were pretty damn close..like within 10kgs. Still thinking that your ideal AE86 (which is close to what mine would be - only mine would have wishbones all round and a ragtop would be better with a lightly worked 4A.

[XJS]

I've a couple of friends with rotaries (we are sharing the same forum engine and url). For the oil problems some of them eliminated the OEM oil pump for some kind of solution called "premix". Basically they are mixing a special oil (tcw3 specification, meets enviromental standards for two stroke boat/jetski engines) with the petrol, like two stroke engines. This one is fully syntetic and has no any leftover when burning, which is the main problem with the use of syntethic oils in a rotary.

A few months back Sport Compact Car magazine featured an FD3S with Chevy LS6(?) V8 all aluminium engine, and compared the weight of the 13B-REW. It's around the same...So the turbo'ed wankel much more heavier then the 4AG. But for the power to weight ratio... It is a viable option IMHO. With proper maintenance (cool water, good oil and enough juice to burn with timely introduced spark) it could be similar lifetime as a piston engine. It would be great to read about an actual project.

[Apolan]

NoHachi a rag top? Seriously man, a rag top?! About double wishbones.. i think solid axle is a "charmy fault" that introduces a special way of handling.. take that away, and you basically dont have a hachi no more.. you are probably right about the 4age.. although you'd still have to sort out the transsmision (like getting a trd gear-set or similar)..

[IBMFD3S]

above mentioned movie about the Hachi with the 20B in it.

Quote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvPfi-ZeQRM

what wonders me is:

the 20B comes from a Eunos Cosmo, JP only, RHD.
this Hachi is in JP, probably Japanese origin, RHD.

and look at the movie again, this Hachi is LHD...

anyone knows Japanese and can translate? guess they ask the driver why LHD and not RHD?!?

[IBMFD3S]

Apolan Wrote:Just conceptually, what do you think about an AE86 with rx-7 FC engine and trannsmision?

The engine is light and smaller so it sits further back and helps the weight balance, it has just the right calvary (150hp), the gearbox is wonderful to replace the dodgy T50, and power delivery is smooth, its NA, hight revving, it has just the right amount of torque for such a light car.. might even throw a pair of FC calipers to help with bbraking.. looking at it from every perspective, the FC hachiroku seems ideal! Okay so fuel economy suffers a bit, but hachi is lighter than an FC, so it might be preatty reasonable?

What do you think of such a hachi?

well, good idea to my opinion.

the engine is located lower in the car and further backwards.
the stock FC NA gearbox is strong but the gearbox in the 1st gen is stronger. and the gearbox of the 12A mounts to the 13B engine.
oh, gearbox of a FD fits also, i have a spare one, should i? and i have a spare 13B-REW. nah.

reliable: def yes! i had a 1986 FC NA with 180K miles (!) on the clock and beat the shit out of it on circuits.
same handling as with the old BMW 320i and 323i (i had one) where the engine was iron cast and the head alu: easy on when cold and hit it when warm. same with the rotary: easy when cold, no high revs and no boost to get 200k to 300k miles from a NA. no typos here.

one BIG but: funky engines regarding to heat. get the cooling of the water and oil on a high level when racing/drifting since a drifter has low airflow. that's why rotaries mostly get killed with burn-outs (and the 10k+ rpm during the burn-out). racing with a rotary should give no problems with a stock RX-7 radiator as i beat the crap out of it every time on the circuit.

and yes, bad for fuel consumption as they are thirsty engines. my ported FD does 310 km on 72 liter 98 ron with spirited driving
but said that, a Ferarri or Porche doesn't do 10km on 1 liter either when driven hard.

for daily driving: keep the 4AGE
for circuit use: def yes
for drifting: don't know if i would, rotaries like good cooling but as i remember, the FD was a D1 winner...

just my 2 eurocents.

[IBMFD3S]

manipula Wrote:It's been done. I remember watching a Youtube video somewhere where a rotary (may have been triple rotary whatever that mean technically) engined 86 absolutely batters a Honda of some form. Proper sh*t me that's fast moment.

went to England to get a 20B tuned. with low boost due to 2,5" catback restriction and the result with low boost was 590 Nm and 470 HP on the fly.
my videos of that session:
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3emRZ0PADM
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ne2U3n-JnLI

[banpei]

I think the best answer may be at 3:16: it probably wouldn't fit if the car is RHD. Same reason why the R30-R34 never were LHD.

[IBMFD3S]

banpei Wrote:I think the best answer may be at 3:16: it probably wouldn't fit if the car is RHD. Same reason why the R30-R34 never were LHD.

ok, it prob won't fit. think the conversion to LHD is cheaper then modding the stuff fitted to the engine because the intake and exhaust is all at the left side of the 20B (when standing in front of the car).
and perhaps is the steering stuff in a JP Hachi further to the middle of the car because the exhaust is at the other side of the engine when compared to a RX-7 or Cosmo.