Sub panel and rotary-button replacement for Levin -> Trueno conversion

[gh0st]

Goodday people,

As some of you are aware, I want to convert my Levin into a Trueno. It's coming along quite nicely. I have already collected the pop-up headlights and other essential parts.

I have a question regarding the subpanel and it's rotary buttons. Both the Levin and the Trueno have different sub-panels, because the headlights switches are different and rotary buttons as pictured below. My question is: do I need to replace the sub-panel and rotary-buttons in order to get the pop-up headlights working?


Levin:


Trueno:


Blueprints panels:


I hope you can help me!


- Gh0st

[banpei]

You don't need to replace the whole bezel as it's 100% (mechanical) identical. The only difference is the headlight position signs.
I also think they are 100% the same as the RHD ones, but then the signs for headlights and wipers are swapped.

[gh0st]

(10-12-2021 08:30 PM)banpei Wrote:  You don't need to replace the whole bezel as it's 100% (mechanical) identical. The only difference is the headlight position signs.
I also think they are 100% the same as the RHD ones, but then the signs for headlights and wipers are swapped.

Thanks!

[pack]

No you don't! I've used Levin and Trueno switches with no issues

[gh0st]

(10-21-2021 03:07 PM)pack Wrote:  No you don't! I've used Levin and Trueno switches with no issues

Great! That saves me a whole lot of trouble!

[Ivan141]

Something related to the ever awesome flip up headlights that I just wanted to share with you guys:

I created a simulation of the Retractor Control Relay:


It took me a long time to figure out how the circuit works, its quite ingenious.
You can try it for yourself if you use the export I attached on the link in the picture (www.falstad.com).
export file

You can start the simulation on the top right side of the screen (not pictured).
Clicking the bottom switch simulates the Headlight relay engaging (flash or headlights on), causing the flip up signal to engage.
Clicking the top switch simulates the retractor hold signal from the light switch (this suppresses the flip down signal which automatically comes after the HL relay is turned off).
Basically, to flip the lights up you always need to switch the top one first.
If the light is up and you switch both switches off, a small delay starts, after which the flip down signal is turned on for a few seconds. I changed the values of some components to speed the simulation up a little.

The left LED shows the signal to the retractor relay for upward movement, the right LED is for downward movement. There is a mechanical switch in the headlights that connects the headlight motors to these signals via the retraction relay (not pictured).

[banpei]

Very nice! You went quite fast from that sketch to this design!
Is there a single HL relay for low and highbeam that can switch this? I remember Jasper jamming the headlight motor wire into the fusebox (it was "fused" with the low beam fuse) so my headlamps only raised when the low beam was on. This means high beam / flash didn't engage the headlight motor.

[Ivan141]

The first sketch I did was based off some pics I found online of a reproduction relay for the 86 that is sold on ebay.
This latest one is pulled from an AW11 relay I dredged up from a box in my basement. Its 100% the same circuit but with the retractor relay integrated into it so you dont need 2 relays when you use the AW11 one.

If you look at the schematic for the AE86 you'll notice that there are 2 things that can activate the headlight relay:
-The headlight switch (set it to main beam)
-The dimmer stalk (flash high beam)

The retractor relay should be connected between the headlight relay and the switches, since the relay is switched from the low side, this
means that the signal is at 12V when off, and grounded when the lights need to be up.
I can also confirm that you cannot get the lights to flip up with just the HOLD signal that should be connected to the light switch.
They go up when the headlight relay is engaged, the only thing the HOLD signal does is keep the lights from flipping back down again.
This means that if you use the Levin switch, you need to turn on the lights using the regular switch, then use an additional switch (to ground) on the HOLD input
to keep them up before turning the headlight switch back off again (for easy bulb changes).

[banpei]

I found that light bulb switching is very awkward on pop up headlights. You need to put the lights in the up position and this allows you to access them from underneath.

You don't necessarily need the HOLD input to get them in the up position: you can wind them up manually but it will be slow. It will take about a minute per lamp to wind them up.

BTW: I did this manually because my battery was flat, but on my Frankenhachi SR5 I also had to do it this way before I installed the separate switch on the dashboard.

[gh0st]

(11-01-2021 08:34 PM)Ivan141 Wrote:  Something related to the ever awesome flip up headlights that I just wanted to share with you guys:

I created a simulation of the Retractor Control Relay:


It took me a long time to figure out how the circuit works, its quite ingenious.
You can try it for yourself if you use the export I attached on the link in the picture (www.falstad.com).
export file

You can start the simulation on the top right side of the screen (not pictured).
Clicking the bottom switch simulates the Headlight relay engaging (flash or headlights on), causing the flip up signal to engage.
Clicking the top switch simulates the retractor hold signal from the light switch (this suppresses the flip down signal which automatically comes after the HL relay is turned off).
Basically, to flip the lights up you always need to switch the top one first.
If the light is up and you switch both switches off, a small delay starts, after which the flip down signal is turned on for a few seconds. I changed the values of some components to speed the simulation up a little.

The left LED shows the signal to the retractor relay for upward movement, the right LED is for downward movement. There is a mechanical switch in the headlights that connects the headlight motors to these signals via the retraction relay (not pictured).

Wow man, this looks amazing!

---

(11-03-2021 10:15 AM)banpei Wrote:  I found that light bulb switching is very awkward on pop up headlights. You need to put the lights in the up position and this allows you to access them from underneath.

You don't necessarily need the HOLD input to get them in the up position: you can wind them up manually but it will be slow. It will take about a minute per lamp to wind them up.

BTW: I did this manually because my battery was flat, but on my Frankenhachi SR5 I also had to do it this way before I installed the separate switch on the dashboard.

That's a good thing to keep in mind!

---

(11-01-2021 11:48 PM)Ivan141 Wrote:  The first sketch I did was based off some pics I found online of a reproduction relay for the 86 that is sold on ebay.
This latest one is pulled from an AW11 relay I dredged up from a box in my basement. Its 100% the same circuit but with the retractor relay integrated into it so you dont need 2 relays when you use the AW11 one.

If you look at the schematic for the AE86 you'll notice that there are 2 things that can activate the headlight relay:
-The headlight switch (set it to main beam)
-The dimmer stalk (flash high beam)

The retractor relay should be connected between the headlight relay and the switches, since the relay is switched from the low side, this
means that the signal is at 12V when off, and grounded when the lights need to be up.
I can also confirm that you cannot get the lights to flip up with just the HOLD signal that should be connected to the light switch.
They go up when the headlight relay is engaged, the only thing the HOLD signal does is keep the lights from flipping back down again.
This means that if you use the Levin switch, you need to turn on the lights using the regular switch, then use an additional switch (to ground) on the HOLD input
to keep them up before turning the headlight switch back off again (for easy bulb changes).

Wow man you really know your stuff, thanks!