Suspensions and stearing setups

[DJexor]

Try the soft compound Toyo Proxes T1R
the CF is not a tire to race....

[Abe]

DJexor Wrote:Try the soft compound Toyo Proxes T1R
the CF is not a tire to race....

Is very dificullt find it in 195/60/14" I think Toyo dont make T1r for 14" wheels... but this is no problem... my next tyres will be semislicks r888 or a048

Regards

[gt99]

Abe Wrote:

DJexor Wrote:Try the soft compound Toyo Proxes T1R
the CF is not a tire to race....

Is very dificullt find it in 195/60/14" I think Toyo dont make T1r for 14" wheels... but this is no problem... my next tyres will be semislicks r888 or a048

Regards

Toyo produce Toyo Proxes T1R 195/55R14 and 195/45R14

In summer were available at http://www.aeu86.org/viewtopic.php?t=3198&start=0

[matt mead]

well her is my 3 cents on the above topic.....

I have spent the last 3-4 months trying to find a setup that works for me... i still havent found that setup but im coming very close....

current setup:

Front:
-Custom Coilovers, Toicko HTS insert, Koni coilvoer kit, Ebiach 6.2kg spring
-30mm RCAS
-Stock Swaybars
-Longer control arms
-Brand new ball joint and bushings
-T3 tension rods
-Cusco Camber tops

Rear:
-Kyb AGX 8 Way adjustable
-3.8kg Springs

Tyres:

195/50/r15 toyo r888

but all this has worked with

advan hf road tyres aswell

So lets get onto your problem

Ok ae86 are know to understeer, its almost impossable to make an ae86 not understeer at all.... but your seems like your car has some major problems... and it has nothing to do with your lsd, as your lsd is controlled by your driving style....

For suspension to work evertyhing need to be matched and worked together..... and before you start changing your spring rates and stuff like that i think you should look at cheaper alternatives such as tyre pressures, damper settings, then wheel alignment settings...

Tyre Pressure:

The higher your tyre pressure the less the tyre will flex and the less heat your tyre will obtain and threfore affecting the grip... Also the less the tyre flexs the stiffer the tyre stays meaning less surface area of the tyre will be touching the ground... therefore affect your grip..

with normal road tyres, you should be running around 30psi in all tyres, unless you want to drift and in that case you should run more in the rear therefore affecting the balance of the car..(cause rear end to want to slide)

Damper Setup:

(THIS IS HOW SUSPENSION GENREALLY WORKS YOU NEED TO FIND OUt WHAT SUITS YOUR DRIVING)

When on the street i run my fronts on 35/45 (where 45 is full hard and 0 is full soft) and i run my rear on 5/8 (where 8 is full hard and 0 is full soft)this is for a grip setup and if i want to drift i jsu tmake the rear dampers harder like 7/8 and bump the rear tyre pressure up alittle more..

Front:

Full hard: will make the car understeer as shocks can not absore alll the bumps in the road causing the car to skip and understeer

Full soft: will cause large amounts of body roll .causing under steer and jsut gay driving feel anyway

i think the best way to counter your problem is to set your front to the middle of there setup range, then slightly adjust it harder and till u find somethign that works

Rear:

Full hard: will cause oversteer as shocks can not absore alll the bumps in the road causing the car to skip and oversteer

Full Soft: will cause large amounts of body roll causing gay driving feel anyway and wont be fast

U need to do the same with this as the front, but remeber your rear shock setup for grip will always be lower then your front setup as there is less weight in the rear of the car.... but i think you should focus on the front of the car first.....

Also do you have RCA's(roll center adjusters) ???????

I think you should try both of these methods first... and see if that works and then ill post some more info up later.....

[Abe]

Thanks, ok I want explain few points...

My car is fast, don´t work bad... but I think it can work better I have a problem with understeer and this made the change of understeer/oversteer very hard... I think that is posible make the car more neutral and it work better....

This post is for find a fine tune.... and I,m very happy with forum help

At this moment my rear shocks are more stiffer than front... 25 points front 32 (36 is full hard F/R) points rear and the car understeer.

I think my problem can be the front camber/caster/toe setup, spring rate or sway bars.

I think OEM ae86 sway bars make the car Understeer because the front is very more stiffer than rear... cusco sway bar are 23mm front /20mm rear

Yes I have RCA

Front:
-Coilovers K-sport 7kg (25points)
-All Bushings Protane
-195/60/14" Toyo Proxes CF 30psi F/R
-RCA 30mm
-2º cambers/ Castor 3.50/ toe= I don´t know

Rear:
-Coilovers K-sport 5kg (32points)
-All Bushings Protane
-195/60/14" Toyo Proxes CF 30psi F/R

-cusco LSD

Regards

[gt99]

Slight understeer should be fastest setup.

[Abe]

gt99 Wrote:Slight understeer should be fastest setup.

yes I know, but at this moment is hard understeer...

Regards

[matt mead]

Quote:My car is fast, don´t work bad... but I think it can work better I have a problem with understeer and this made the change of understeer/oversteer very hard... I think that is posible make the car more neutral and it work better....

Oh ok, sorry for my basic explination again, i thoguht u had no idea about suspension!!!!! sorry

Quote:think my problem can be the front camber/caster/toe setup

Have a look at this website, give you a better understanding of what toe, camber and castor is:

http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

how your Camber, Castor and Toe is setup depends on the type of road conditions and what dicipline you are planning on doing...

for grip driving i run:
Camber: -3.0
Castor: +4 degrees
Toe: Zero (as i dont really understand toe)

Drift:
Camber: -4.0
Castor: +3 degrees
Toe: Zero

Its hard to explain y i do this as i dont really ahve a great understanding of castor,camber and toe... but i know in my head y it works, but i cant really explain it... if you want me to explain it i can try and come up with something

Quote:think my problem can be the spring rates

I personally think that 7 and 5kg spring are to stiff. (but u have to remeber with suspension it personal preference) I run 6.5kg F and 3.9kg R, but this is more grip setup but i also know ppl who succesfull run 8kgF 7kgR for drift....

have a read of what one of my good mates posted up on http://www.hachiroku.com.au about spring rates then you will understand the reasons y i use my spring rates.

Quote: get asked this alot so i will post the answer before the question is asked and doesn't comply with the NEW forum rules which even i don't fully understand

Step 1 .

Now if you walk into any suspension shop of spring supplier and they don't ask how many Lb/In { which is LBS in a inch } which is the amount of force required to compress the spring .

2.

If they answer you in Kg/mm { which is kilogram per millimeter } then they have already spoted that you are a hetic drift kid then there going to spin you alot of bullshit and sell you some rate that they couldn't get rid of .

3.

So you have arrived at the point where you are going off the club4age { oppsclub4AGE , mustn't forget the capitals } school of stupid KG rates . Which really is a stupid idea because who the hell is really going to set up a car that is adjusted to the millimeter crazy .

4.

So you need the maths to convert this but due to imperial and metric rules there are a few ways of doing this , and you get a few different answers .

5.

Lets stick to a basic one l

kg/mm kilogram per millimeter to convert this to Lb pounds you
multiply it by x 2.22 , this gives you pounds in a kilogram

* eg * less take 6kg/mm x 2.22 this equals = 13.32 this is how many pounds in a millimeter

Now you need to convert that 13.32 to force over a inch , and millimeter to inch is x 25.4

so we take 13.32 x 25.4 = 338.32 lbs

a 6kg/mm spring is a 338.32 lb/in spring in linear measurement

now lbs to kg is 1 Lbs = 0.4535924 Kg so 338.32 = 153.459

you need 153.459kg to compress that spring one inch or 25mm

so you hetic drift kid are going to have 8kg front springs which is 451 lb/in spring or 204.57 kg to compress it 25.4mm

your 86 weights 465kg at the front , you add two springs so 409.14kg so you front suspension compresses 28.867867mm loaded

sic

Basicly it say your stiff springs can hold basicly the weight of the car meaning you shock absorbes dont get the opportunity to do there job, also in a 20year old 86 with chassis that are either rusted or falling apart you will find with 7 and 8kg spring the chaisse will bend and twist before your springs will even move....

however stiffer spring are affective for drift as most indivudals are sideways before entering a cornor using the oversteer to counter the understeer, and more succesfull ae86 drifters like ueo actualy like undeersteer as they use this to 4wd drift which prevents there cars from spinning in compititon.

Quote:think my problem can be the swaybars

i havent personally started playing with swaybars yet, but the front oem swaybar is more then what you need for the front... however an adjustable rear swaybar is very worth while (will be getting one when money permits) as it can either cause or prevent oversteer, pending how it is adjusted... but this wont help you at all with your under steer problem......

like i said above, i think you should play with your dampers, runnig your rears softer then your fronts, it will create a better and mroe controlable balance...

and you also must remeber these are my opionins on what works for me and my driving style, the best way to find out what works is to get out on the track and play with stuff..... setting up ur car is a never ending challenge and not everyone is good at it... ppl who setup race cars get payed top dollar to do what they do...

cheers hope i have helped

[Mux213]

Abe,

If you feel up for a long drive, come by my place and we'll put my wheels on your car and see how much difference rubber makes... seeing what I just read about your tire choice you might be surprised, I know I was...

Also you can see how my car feels compared to yours considering mine is still much closer to stock.

I'll also ask djex to join us so we can try his tires aswell, we'll have 3 brands to play with

Offcourse no open track in the neighberhood so we can't go all out but there are some places we can see how the car handles...

[ZaX]

"-2º cambers/ Castor 3.50/ toe= I don´t know "
I see problem here.
Reduce camber, I used to have that much only for drifting. Your are not using optimal contact patch of your tires with that much camber.
For more stability pull som more castor. It also afects how fast your steering wheel comes back to zero position.
Toe could be your major problem, because if it's not around 0 your car will understeer (maybe you hit something)
For you just set it to 0, in fact slightly open to avoid steering wheel shake in straight.

I hope you know when you raise or lower the car you mess up your toe in/out with that set the toe last.

This are some of my personal experiencens, not "some guy from internet settings".


Best regards

ZaX