Cams doubt

[T_AE86]

One important thing i omitted (sorry), i know ITBs are very important to increase power in our 16v, but in my country ITBs are NOT homologable since 2012 january to road cars, TUV Inspection consider it like "competition parts", but i don't know why we can't homolotate ITBs in a 16v...but we can homologate swaping all engine to a 20v with ITBs (because this engine came with it originally)...legally we can homologate any swap with increases until 35% of original engine power (yes, we can't homologate only ITBs, but we can homologate a BEAMS saying it is a 160hp 3SGE)

Then, i want to consider how much money i'll spend to how many power will gain with reliability. I would prefer a 16 with ITBs and head worked, but without ITBs power gain is more limited...swaping to 20 i'll have this power gain in theory (i know about some 20v that are slackers in any forums). In the begining, i want only to take cams to an original head...but frineds make me think if is profitable to spend ~500€ for a bit power?? or is better to spend more to gain a good power increase

PD: i know too swaping to 20v implies manifold, air admision cleaner, radiator+fan, etc

[4000GT]

Canary Island rules sound bat shit crazy.

[T_AE86]

4000GT Wrote:Canary Island rules sound bat shit crazy.

Yes, Spain is a country of shame, for too much stupid laws and legal political corruption...but we're here to talk about engines, brakes and horses power that don't appears :wink:

[NoHachi]

ITB's are not 'that' important to create power in 16v's, the stock intake manifold will flow 200hp like it did in the old GroupA engines (all be it with a lot of work). For most of the 4AGE builds out there, the stock manifold would have been more then enough.

[Uzelac]

I agree on that.
Not that i tried it but i've seen many 180+ hp buiilds with stock plenum.

[oldeskewltoy]

Smallport using flipped smallport manifold - 145 whp... 165-170hp @ the crank. Almost all on stock parts not just a stock manifold :wink:



The only internal aftermarket performance based parts on this engine are: camshafts(and timing pulleys), valve springs, and wrist pins. Crank, rods, pistons, block, head, valves are all OEM.



6 speed too

[Bean]

@Jan:
the thread I linked to is quite a bit old meanwhile so prices aren't accurate anymore but the principle is the same. (also engine prices aren't the same for each country and I can only assume that a 20V is not easy to get in the Canarys)

And I agree with the others ITBs aren't necessary at all and neither is a header upto around 160hp. bob, robokill and oldeskewltoy have proven this with their own builds.

if you check bob's build he only raised the CR, cams, injectors and a standalone - this can be done for less than 2k€ these days to including the rebuild... so you get a fresh engine and similar results (mind you the 20V in his example had a better header and full exhaust).

anyway to each his own - considering the laws etc... I think T_AE86 will do fine on building a 16V without damaging the bank too much and get a happy result.

PS: Dan beat me to it

[Jan Pedersen]

Sure you can do a 16V for €2k - if you got the engine already and its in good condition as I wrote earlier. My old engine was toasted, so I had to start from scratch So it all depends on where you start that's all I'm saying. And that the price comparison wasn't all that fair

The 20V had a different exhaust system. Most headers do more harm than good concerning torque - I'm sure Dan will agree. And the TRD header is not a brilliant piece of design!

BTW: My dream engine would probably quite close to the one you are building, Bean, but at the time the 20V was the better option...

[T_AE86]

Thanks, i'm learning many things, two options are nice, in general i see it:

16v:

? With a "custom 16v", one of my fears is the reliability (i don't want 200hp) i think about 150 would be good...i don't know if the engine will break in 20.000km.

+ my stock?: I have in the garage one bigport 7 rib and one bigport 3 rib, as I have learned here i would take the 3 rib

+ i don't have to homologate this engine customize

20v

+ Will be a stock engine, it give me more trust with reliability

- I don't have parts of 20 in my garage

- I'll have to homologate this engine


Other option?? ....Is so difficult to made an 7AGE?? (i didn't think it)
I think is not so easy like "mount one stock 4a head in a stock 7afe block" and runs a lot...to make it runs must do more than cams (usable at med rpm too) and HC pistons??

Sorry for this headache mates!!

[Bean]

if 150ish is all you want most definitely stick with the parts you have... not sure in what shape your blocks are but even at 160hp reliability is not an issue when everything is within tolerances.