OST-028: Redline it baby....

[oldeskewltoy]

Yes... I know how to count, OST-027 hasn't been forgotten...



So... onto OST-028 Redline it baby...

I get a tub from Fed Ex.... yes a tub






As I unpack.... the goodies reveal themselves




Dig a bit further.... note the cam cover studs poking through??






Well the cam boxes were on top - note the punch marks in the cam outer packaging. No harm, no foul - the inner packaging, in this case, was not damaged, and neither were the cams.



also worth noting... the Redline DCOE manifold, along with the T3 TVIS delete plate.



My audience tends to enjoy my little quizzes.....


length of intake port - mounting surface to back edge of intake valve = 4.1" (104mm)

thickness of T3 adapter = .9" (23mm)

The Redline DCOE manifold = 2.1"(53mm) Do to spacing... cyl 1 and 4 have a heavy taper and so valve #2 and #7 actually measure 2.35" (59mm).

The length of a DCOE (without velocity stack) = 4.64" (118mm)

Cams... Tomei Poncams - 264 duration (3500-8000) peak torque @ 5500

Sooooo... my question to you all is.... Does my client need/want to keep, the TVIS delete plate???



more to come.....

[totta Crolla]

Yes your client should keep it...

[oldeskewltoy]

(07-10-2014 09:18 AM)totta Crolla Wrote:  Yes your client should keep it...

although you didn't say why... we ALL ASSUME you also came up with the correct answer

from another forum Wrote:I'mma saaaayyy..... No he doesn't need it because of the lengths of the adapters and DCOEs.

from another forum Wrote:Ummm... In terms of runner length and design, wouldn't it be better to go with the dcoe only?

Did you get a chance to read the ramtheory link? What I'm trying to do is back up the cams peak torque, by attempting to time the intake wave oscillations so that @ 5500 as the cam begins to come on its peak, I can add a bit of ram theory to better maximize that rpm band....

VERY simplified - because the valves open and close the intake charge is actually moving back and forth, or more accurately a pressure wave is moving back and forth inside the intake and the port. What I'm attempting to do is either add, or subtract the .9" of the delete plate to better match the intake length to the desired peak torque point (or as close as possible).

Shorter isn't always better.....

from another forum Wrote:Thanks for the info OST! I think I learned a lot.

If I did the math correctly, you want to leave the TVIS delete in for the ideal runner length of ~11.65". With that length the pressure wave would travel the length of the runner exactly 8 times from intake valve opening to intake valve opening for maximum ram effect @5500 rpm.

that's the theory....

[totta Crolla]

Yes Dan, it wasn't just a lucky guess !
I have recently removed a set of DCOE's from my engine after some back to back testing against a smallport plenum and after some research my conclusion was that the inlet tract was too short on the particular Carb. manifold I was using.

[oldeskewltoy]

from another forum Wrote:What about testing both? Or make up the difference with velocity stack length?

Since I'm not building the engine, nor installing it, testing it is unlikely for me, but is an option for my client.

Velocity stack length can help tune things, but it is usually better to have the throttle plate[s] placed further away from the valve then closer to it - typically higher air velocity.

same author as above quote Wrote:What looks best on paper isn't always what is fastest, or best feeling.

no argument... BUT the 16V 4AGE is far more sorted then... say a 20V 4AGE. The 16V is easier to determine because if it.

same author as above quote Wrote:What is the owner wanting out of it?

early client email Wrote:I am building a largeport and was
looking to get some head work done. On this build the block and crank are
from a 20v st, also bc rods and 11.1:1 wiseco pistons. I will be running
poncams. Im not looking for anything too crazy, just looking for your basic
job really. I am sure the chambers need work. Currently the head needs
decking

By the way... if you haven't yet figured it out... or surmised it... this client is no longer running those Wiseco's, he will be running the very first set of the OST/JE Asym pistons -


more to come....

[Bean]

Good decision of him to switch away from the Wisecos. Personally I never really liked them, even for the SR20

[oldeskewltoy]

(07-11-2014 06:28 PM)Bean Bandit Wrote:  Good decision of him to switch away from the Wisecos. Personally I never really liked them, even for the SR20

from another forum Wrote:

oldeskewltoy Wrote:no argument... BUT the 16V 4AGE is far more sorted then... say a 20V 4AGE. The 16V is easier to determine because if it.

Oh, absolutely. A lot more development in the 16v. Much easier to predict. Especially when you're close to someone who's probably got more man hours into development for it than everyone on this board combined.

see below....

from a different forum Wrote:i'd rather have the Wiseco's.

JE can suck it from personal experience.

others i know have had issues as well.
they switched to CP. no longer crack pistons.

Heh, ok.... I can't speak to your experiences... or "others" as you put it...

Since I have no direct piston building/design experience, I based my decision on what I saw @ the shop that builds these (4AGE engines) for a living...

In the 6 years I've been going to Loynings... I've never seen them use anything else... but JE Pistons




Head should be back on Monday from getting pressure checked....






more to come....

[oldeskewltoy]

from another forum Wrote:Looks perty.

The head had serious work done before pressure checking? Or is this a post work extra check? I also consider pen-dye worthwhile in addition. You have opinion on it?

Can't wait to see what the performance looks like.

The client said the person he bought it from had cleaned and pressure checked it. It is clean, but for some reason **IF** it wasn't pressure checked $1000 worth of porting will be for naught... so for $60 we had it re-checked.

same poster as above Wrote:As this is similar to my build, I'd guess peak torque is closer to 6200rpm. I imagine a fully optimized motor with OS valves running the poncams could come in around 180+hp crank, and on that alone TVIS delete is probably a good call.

I wanna disable my TVIS soon enough to compare low end response.

thank you for that.... The Tomei Poncam dyno shows peak @ 6000, it also shows that the peak is preceded by the climb to the peak 500 rpm early... @ 5500.

My purpose for trying to get the intake length a bit longer is to attempt to aid the torque rise... and in so doing offer the client a very strong mid range to peak rpm powerband.

Your intake length is closer to 17.5" (4.1head + .9TVIS + 12.5intake manifold to plenum) @ what rpm point does that length favor??

Just doing a quick bit of basic math shows 17.5" is not a clean equation for an intake pulse @ 5500. 17.5 does not divide 93 without a remainder, it does divide cleanly by 87.5, or 105

Maybe we can get one of our other math wizards to give us the rpm levels those 2 numbers calculate out too......

[oldeskewltoy]

The head pressure checked out fine....



she now carries her new serial number....


More to come....

[oldeskewltoy]

deburring..... these are the 2 exhaust valve bucket cradles from #2 cyl





not multiply that by 8...





more to come.....