How fast is a 86 with 20V?

[NoHachi]

I hope some people will listen to someone who has had the swap done Will..
The 20hp seat of the pants increase is based on my own experience. In my '89 910kg civic I went from the standard 90bhp 1.5 engine to a 130bhp crx engine. The old engine revved to 6600rpm, the new one to 7600rpm. The increase should have been more than noticable, thats why I (based on the numbers) chose to fork out the cash required to do this (around 1500E at that time).
The end result was not dramatic. Sure the car was a little faster but I had expected more. Ask Ivan, he drove it once and wasn't all that impressed with the power increase. Not worth the investment.

The engine+car were no slouches! the car would do 8.0secs 0-62mph all day long (timed with stopwatch). Fastest time according to a GtechPro was 7.6 seconds, but I would trust that result about as much as Robokills claims of a 190bhp 20V..
The car felt significantly faster than Ivans hachi.

[Mux213]

NoHachi,

You went from 90hp to 130 hp, so nearly 50% more power, and the effect was hardly noticable?

Sounds to me like there was something wrong with that car. Or could it be that the torque increase wasn't that big. Top HP is nice but if the top HP isn't very usable..

I drive a normal 130hp DeLorean from time to tim. I've also driven a 160hp turbo'd DeLorean. The difference in speed experience between those two cars is amazing. So maybe its just the seat of the pants that differs due to the quality (or lack thereof) of handling of a car.

When you look at the 0-62mph time when the 90hp engine was in there, did that show a big difference?

[20vWill]

Lightening an AE86 will make it quicker than putting a 20v in.

I must admit, in terms of power/speed, I was not at all impressed with the 20v over the 16v. However, I knew what to expect (mild power gain) and wanted the engine for it's response and flat power delivery. This consistent output makes the car feel slower but improves throttle control for handling on the edge.

As long as you do your reserach and know what you are getting, the 20v is a fantastic engine.

I've never bothered measuring 0-100 times etc since I don't care about that sort of thing - like you said before, if speed mattered I'd have gone for a 4AGZE.

I will do some measurements for reference purposes when I get hold of a Race Tech. Performance Meter. I think my car is pretty quick though: I'd guess sub 7 seconds since it's totally stripped and 4kg flywheel etc. It's amazing how much slower the car is with another passenger or more fuel though.

[NoHachi]

There was nothing wrong with the car mux. The torque increase indeed was not that great..0.1 ltrs worth. Perhaps Ivan will chime in and post his experiences with the car.
Turbo cars seem to make a better impression. The HUGE gains in mid range torque give you that "hand of god pushing in your back" feel.
Mind you..the 20V should feel about the same as the engine I had. The real power only comes in at high rpm's.

[Mux213]

NoHachi,

Thats my point. I believe you can have great improvement in performance but not notice it due to the 'feel' of the car. In the same way you can think your car has become 2ce as fast but in reality you hardly have an improvement in performance (turbo'ed cars are a great example because of the kick in the back you get when the power kicks in, but its a trade in, more power ontop, much less power in the bottom end).

The real question is, is this just a feeling, or has the car indeed not become faster. If its the latter the next question is, how can a car with 50% power increase only shave of a second on its laptimes. Could be that you have a more powerfull engine but with a much smaller powerband. Could be a mismatch on your gearbox so you cant optimally use the newly found power. Could be the engine is 2ce as heavy as the original engine effecting the power/weight ratio. The list goes on and on.

There was a good thread about this on I think gummen, but could have been 8200 where the Honda vtec engine was discussed. The problem being that the car being discussed was tuned in such a way that the gearbox was set up that when you shift to the next gear, you end up below its powerband and the car lost time in the part where the RPM had to increase back into the powerband. Sorta like when you tune a turbo that you keep shifting into an rpm range where the turbo can't build up the needed presure, you need to make sure your gearbox allows you to stay within the powerband when shifting.

On a side note, this is exactly the problem I have with my ford station turbo diesel, I need to pull it beyond its powerband before shifting or it will end up on to low rpm in the next gear and the turbo lag on this thing is idiotic, its power band is somewhere between 2000 rpm and 3200rpm, but if I shift at 3200 rpm, I end up around 1500rpm. If I pull through to about 4000 rpm (near redline) and I shift I get back into the power band but the power between 3200 and 4000 is not to good, better then 1500-2000 rpm though.

[NoHachi]

Yes the car was quicker..about 1.5 secs faster to 60. The only place you would ever notice that was on the track looking at laptimes.
Sensation value was 0. Nothing bores more easily then horsepower. Keep the 16v engine and upgrade the suspension first. God knows the AE86 needs it..

[Mux213]

NoHachi,

Tuning the engine is last on my list, thats for sure

For me, paintjob is #1, handling #2 and then its RX7 time

[banpei]

mux213 Wrote:There was a good thread about this on I think gummen, but could have been 8200 where the Honda vtec engine was discussed. The problem being that the car being discussed was tuned in such a way that the gearbox was set up that when you shift to the next gear, you end up below its powerband and the car lost time in the part where the RPM had to increase back into the powerband. Sorta like when you tune a turbo that you keep shifting into an rpm range where the turbo can't build up the needed presure, you need to make sure your gearbox allows you to stay within the powerband when shifting.

On a side note, this is exactly the problem I have with my ford station turbo diesel, I need to pull it beyond its powerband before shifting or it will end up on to low rpm in the next gear and the turbo lag on this thing is idiotic, its power band is somewhere between 2000 rpm and 3200rpm, but if I shift at 3200 rpm, I end up around 1500rpm. If I pull through to about 4000 rpm (near redline) and I shift I get back into the power band but the power between 3200 and 4000 is not to good, better then 1500-2000 rpm though.

This reminds me of Episode 4 of Fourth Stage and I know all about the turbolag of your ford.

[Ivan141]

Hmm..since my opinion was asked I'll fill in on my experiences with NoHachi's 130bhp civic. It was just a tiny bit faster than the ae86. Comparing the official 0-100 time of 8.9 for the ae86 to the 8 secs that the civic took proves that point (measured it myself once).
I didnt have the hachi to play with back then so it's difficult to compare, but the crx engine was less fun imho than a 4age. It revved slower in the lower rpm ranges, only to come alive above 5000 rpm (that's at least how I remember it). A 4age pulls a lot more constant from the lower rev ranges, but has less power up top.
As far as the difference in power between the 90 and 130 bhp was concerned I have to say that I thought the 90hp 1.5l engine was a giggle to start with. It's not as spectacular an improvement as you would hope. You need torque for that. For more fun in daily driving, what use does it have to have power at insane rpm's?

[KristianAE86]

Richie Wrote:

NoHachi Wrote:How do you think the two combined will sound...

Compound charging
That's going to be a great project!!

perhaps like this: please download the first video & LISTEN to the engine

My friend Ronnie´s Opel Manta 1971 with Volvo b230 turbo/supercharger -

Max. 578Hp @ 6300rpm & 1,7bar
558Hp @ 7700rpm - 1,5 bar
Over 500Hp from 5200 to 7700rpm

Max. 706Nm @ 4900rpm & 1,85 bar
Over 600Nm from 4300 to 6600rpm

http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/bilder/...llakra.mpg

http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/bilder/...msning.mpg

http://www.hilmersson-racing.com/bilder/..._10,52.mpg