How do you drift ?

[Ian.G]

A lot of drifting is to do with weight transfer on the car.

The e-brake/handbrake (call it what you want) is good for locking the rear wheels - and if you are not travelling in a perfectly straight line can cause the car start to slide.

This does not have the same effect on the car as for example trail braking. Pulling he ebrake does not have as bigger effect on weight transfer as the front brakes are not used. When you trail brake there is a big weight shift to the front of the car (as that is where most of the breaking energy is coming from) which allows the rear to brake away easy as it has less weight over the rear end.

You can simulate some of the effect of the ebrake by moving brake bias to the rear of the car. Hachi doesn't have this ability as standard so you need to fit a bias proportioning valve - adjustable bias is factory fit on my westi.

You can similarly start a slide by backing off the gas whilst already turning or at the same time as turning. I've always know this as lift-off oversteer but I think the japanese call this dynamic drifting.

I am not an expert on drifting - but I do understand the physics of what happens to the car in various conditions. This is totally relavent to the track driving I've been doing for the last 8 years.

Now I just need to slide my hachi better now

[NoHachi]

Lift throttle oversteer doesn't work that well in a std. hachi. Me and Ivan tried, but she wouldn't budge. Power over is real nice and controllable, the AE86 seems to have a nice and wide limit.
The MX5 is the opposite: power over is impossible (damn visco diff), but lift off oversteer works quite nicely.

[Ian.G]

Liftoff seems 'ok' in my hachi - but I think this is to do with how stiff the car is (cage, front and rear shock tower braces, bulkhead braces etc.) I think on a std hachi a lot of the energy is lost through the flex in the shell and suspension turrets so it has less overall effect on the attitude of the car.

My westi and all lotus elises I have driven respond very quickly to lift-off. But this is because the weight of the engine and transmission is all in the middle/back of the car.

This thread is quite interesting.

[Mux213]

I knew about the brake drifting technique but I never realized the drift already progressed so far before they hit the gas. I have yet to see the drift bible front to back, haven't found the time to watch it as a whole

I do have to say that some of the speeds I entered into corners at lelystad having to brake hard all I got was understeer situations Only at the end of the day I found that I came in hard on one of the scharp 180degree turns I needed to make and I started to notice the rear end getting light and I was fairly sure that if I had a little more guts, I could have put a nice drift down there. Then again, it wasn't until that time, right at the end of the day, I finally started feeling I was driving the car instead of my hachi driving me.

I


need



practice

[NoHachi]

Mux, try steering into the corner with the weight shifted to the front. At the apex of a 180 degree turn start adding throttle as you would usually, but abruptly lift the throttle and immidiately re-aply it. That should kick out the tires. You can then start to bring this action more towards the beginning of the corner, but it gets increasingly harder to do.

[Mux213]

NoHachi,

I'm gonne be trying that. I think my main issue at lelystad, especially at the beginning of the day, I brake very early and very lightly not knowing how fast I can enter a corner. This means less weight shifted to the front, more balance in the car, harder to get it to oversteer. but thats just my theory

Later in the day I brake much later and much harder, putting all the weight to the front so I really felt the rear starting to swing around during the turn in, just still being to carefull to make the rear get out

I think if they day would be an hour or two longer..... .then again, I dont like that track for trying this, need to get to a parkinglot when it starts raining. Soon will be good

[robokill]

Mux try a parkinglot thats the best way most of the stuff can be done and learned there and stop bullshitting about wheightshifting if you cannot control the car while sliding knowing how to set a forced loss of traction by breaking is far beyond your thoughts.

Start with donuts and when exiting the donut try to point out a direction meaning you can exit a tailslide

Then try 90 degree turns on your diff (no handbrake) simply in 1st or 2nd gear power over. (1st is better less speed is involved)

Then go for 180 (stoplights at provincial roads do good here in Zaanstad)

Controlling those slides making you want more take a trackday and try to drift long coners after you aply all that work on shift brake drifts.

(you guys seen driftbible to many times)

[Mux213]

Robo, I'm only commenting on what I experience with grip driving, you can learn alot about your car this way aswell, its all about feeling when you drive on the edge. Grip driving is where you try to get as much speed keeping your car at the edge of loosing control but not beyond. Drifting is learning how to find that edge and purposefully go beyond it.

But like I said, I need practice practice practice, and you are absolutely right that I need to start with the basics before I start with the cool stuff

[robokill]

I know its wrong but i use the road for grip driving (and a ittle practice now and then)

But still even if you can grip drive like crazy you still can't drift its totally diffrent in my opinion.

[Mux213]

Robo,

Grip driving does not teach you how to drift. Grip driving does teach you where the limits lie.