Does a throttle bodie setup still need an afm?

[BenR]

thats what i thought.......no need for me to learn that! lol

[Mux213]

Thats the unfair bit in this world Ben,

I've been programming C since I was a little kid.

But I know jack sh*t about ECUs... If I did I could probably code the most user friendly ECU in the world

Awell... maybe some day......

[krijn]

Programming C, is that what i used on my Commodore 64 15 years ago??

But when I use a MS, I would not need to be able to program C, there would be software to adjust settings?. Does a MS have large enough resolution to play with for a TPS MAP combination?

I am not starting my engineproject soon, first obtain information (and i think i still need alot!!) and then i will dicide what to do.

Fortunatly my original engine still runs great so there's plenty of time.

[BenR]

why bother using a megasquirt when there are better ECU's out there for very little money.

It annoys me when people put alot of effort into work only to screw the whole thing up with a crap ECU and crap mapping. Makes the whole project useless.

[krijn]

Which ECU's are an alternative? Which one are you working with and what did it cost?

[Mux213]

Krijn,

C is much older then 15 years but its still a very popular and good programming language. Allthough today it comes in much newer forms. For programming an ECU I would stick to plain old C or maybe even ASM though if you want to get the max out of it.

Still have to agree with BenR 150%, why bother, there are great ECUs on the market where experts have done all that work for you, why bother. Writing the software for your own ECU may be a cool thing to do for a geek like me but thats just plain geekyness, it has nothing to do with it being the better solution

(and I wouldn't even be able to do a good job cause I know jack shit about programming ECU's though I wouldn't mind learning some day)

[BenR]

I work with many ECU's.

When you work in this undustry you will find that you are confortable with a few, and more importantly there is brand snobbery amongst customers. They dont all want the best priced, but some want the best name that they can afford as they feel it is better.

In most cases VEMS is a good solution for most applications where there is a budget and no brand snobbery. It does most things you need and has features which other companies would charge you alot for. For middle line budget DTA is good and user friendly, and there are also ALOT of new ECU companies out there flooding the market with their cheaper alternative ECU's, and because it is such a competitive market now, they are all stuffing their ECU's full of the most features they can so its great value.

For higher end applications where needed, MecTronik i like for quick and easy plug&play solutions and they are great to use. Motec is out the window with alot of tuners now because of price and not being so user friendly. Pectel is fantastic, and the new Ontronic ECU comes with so many features its great, the map breakpoint resolution is fantastic which for high output engines i feel is a must due to the sensitivity of changes at ultra high rpm, i dont want to be relying on pure interpolation.

[NoHachi]

You mention resolution Ben. Do you do your mapping on an engine bench against a constant load dyno? If so, then the more expensive high res ecu's make sense..If you'd see how most of the cars end up being mapped, then usually the less they have to play with, the less they can ruin.

Don't agree that the MS is inferior to the rest..even the older versions performed better then carbs (which would still run almost every engine out there). Newer versions get higher resolution, no worse then eg DTA. The VEMS is basically the same thing..open source architecture develloped by amateurs. Just that a couple of people started producing the thing more seriously reducing the geek factor.

Whatever ECU you choose, I think that the performance achieved is about 90% mapping vs 10% ecu capability. If you are just guestimating on a dynojet, then interpolation works just fine.

[BenR]

I do mapping on the engine dyno, chassis dyno and road mapping, in all 3 cases i find decent resolution highly beneficial. Interpolation is at best a means to smooth areas between known breakpoints, it is not a solution to poor resolution or mapping since it is but a linear scale between 2 points. The less your ecu has to interpolate between points, the more reliable and accurate the map is.

And MS is better than carbs, i bloody well hope it is. If you have an injection system what is worse than carbs i would throw it striaght into the bin. And yes VEMS is a MS based project, but it is now better, easier to setup, much nicer for the customer to see and cheap. But i wouldnt put MS on the same line as DTA primarily because the megatune software is crap and very basic.

As for dynojet, i never map on an inertia dyno just because its pointless.

I would say that if people spend all the time solving an injection system, then go out and do a half arsed mapping attempt where they rely on interpolation, well i dont see a point in it at all. Sure, it'll be ok on a stock engine where there are no stresses and large null zones of safety, but on a performance engine, its just a bad idea from the start.

[krijn]

There is said that the vacuumtube for MAP input needs a constant vacuum.

Does this mean that when you work with ITB and velocity stags there should be build a box over it if you want to work with MAP or AFM?

http://www.technotoytuning.com/media/t3/...apter4.jpg

The above link with velocity stacks must be AlphaN or can the Vacuumsensor be placed on the inlets individually?

Maybe noob questions but Learn alot from you guys!!