20V cams - CATCAMS vs KELFORD?

[Grant]

Hello all, I've been on club4ag for a while now - California based forum for 4AGE in general.

I'm looking to buy some cams for my 20V blacktop. I will be using them with stock spring, stock valves, etc. The only thing I wish to change is the valve shims to set clearances on the new cams.

1. Do you prefer Catcams or Kelford cams? Toda is too expensive.
2. What is the largest cam duration and lift I can use with VVT?

I was thinking something like 8.5mm lift and 272 degree intake, 280 ex.

Thanks!

[rooty]

On BT it's 264 degrees with 9mm lift (that's what TODA reports)
For ST it's a better situation because of deeper piston pockets - 276 degrees and 9mm lift (checked by a friend)

Both companies make good cams. Kelford is more popular though

regards

[[Walaki]D`Lair]

You can use any kind of duration and lift cams, if they are VVT cams TODA has 304° 8.5mm VVT cams for example...

Thats another story, that you cant use higher than 272° with the OEM ECU...

[Grant]

I am actually running VEMS ( a stand alone ECU) off of the stock CAS.

I looked at the TODA website, if I can get the 9mm 280 degree intake cam, and maybe a Kelford exhaust cam that would be ideal.

I can't afford/am not willing to pay for both cams from TODA. Kelfords are half as much, but their rally intake cam is said not to work with a blacktop and VVT.

[Nomuken]

Got some 266° 9.5mm lift catcams. In combination with my .7mm headgasket and .3mm head skim VVT can no longer be used
Will have to regrind the valve pockets or get other pistons.
Catcams have quite a lot of lift in TDC (2mm) that makes them not really VVT friendly. Most TODA cams for example got 0mm lift in TDC

So now my engine lacks a bit of torque, but hey, it's a 1.6
But I got quite good hp numbers with the higher compression, head work, haltech ECU,...

[Grant]

Where did you find that information about how much lift there was at TDC?

OK, so it seems like Toda may be using a "new" style cam design, where the initial ramp rate is very steep....this puts more strain on the lifter, but I think that means you get pretty good performance with less duration.

Are you suing blacktop or silvertop?

I'm wondering about putting a silvertop VVT pulley on my car to retard the intake valve open time...

[Nomuken]

Lift in TDC can be found on the catcams homepage.
For TODA you can see on their diagram that there is no lift in TDC.

Catcams doesn't have the biggest duration, but ramp angle is pretty agressive, as is max lift.
260° have 9mm lift
and 266° have 9.5mm lift

Saw quite some german 20V's rocking the 260° with VVT.
Maybe 266° could work with VVT, but not on my engine! Thanks to skimming and thinner head gasket

[Grant]

150whp is very good!

What made you choose those cams in particular?

Also, I think duration might actually be a bit more than what is stated since they include the clearance + .1mm off of the seat.

Toda states their duration as soon as the valve leaves the seat I think.

Are you using a blacktop or silvertop?

[Nomuken]

Why I chose them: fast delivery, nice price,... High lift with mild duration, wich could probably let me pass emission tests. And you're absolutely right, effectife duration is about 270°. Effective lift is about 9.2mm. Catcams indicates a .2mm valve-cam clearance. But I couldn't find shims that were thick enough for my engine. So cams were set up with ~0.3mm clearance.

My engine is blacktop, head is lightly ported, and heavenly smoothened. I just couldn't believe how bad those heads were built
ITB's (BT) were also ported to match the intake runners of the head
Header (TRD) was also port matched. Exhaust ports were polished. All done by me, never done it before,..., had just to much spare time and a Dremel
Valve springs are TODA. Head is skimmed by .2mm and PowerEntrprise headgasket 0.7mm was used. Compression ration should be 12.1-12.2
Block wise, everything ist stock, changed the main and rod bearings and put ARP bolts everywhere. Redline is at a conservative 8500 untill I get some better/lighter/stronger conrods.

[rooty]

[Walaki]D`Lair Wrote:You can use any kind of duration and lift cams, if they are VVT cams TODA has 304° 8.5mm VVT cams for example...

Thats another story, that you cant use higher than 272° with the OEM ECU...

VVT will not operate with those cams, nothing above 264 will (for BT)