Brakes

[Jeroen]

I hate the original brakes on my 86 and want these to get replaced by better one´s.
Now I know that there are big brake kits for sale but I don´t want to buy that big.
Can I use the brakes of a AE101 levin ?
They have 2 pistons and know that the would fit on the AE92.

Thanx in advance

[robokill]

Nope

Brakes on the AE86 you can buy a big brake kit for to much money or

Get difrent brake discs brake lines and compound on the brake pads caus the diameter from the disc is a diffrent lug patern.

Its also wise to replace the master cylinder :-) my brakes are pretty hard on the standard one but i know with the right compound you can get far

try asking Zax and Kristian what they have done with there brakes

[Ivan141]

There are plenty of conversions possible, I dont think ae92 or ae101 brakes will fit easily though. You might as well go for better bigger calipers if you're going to fabricate supports etc.. RX7, supra whatever floats your boat. Senna on this forum has some kind of cosworth brakes on his car. Those do the trick as well.

[robokill]

ohh yea i forgot to meantion

RX7 FC first type has a 4 lug patern (those brakes fit)

Nissan SX200 and the brakes on senna's ride are from a sierra crossworth but the caliper and disc are modified and the rim can't go lower than 14"


RX7 would be the best option also because you can use standard calipers on them but still the brakes willl do alot more since the disc is thicker (correct me if am wrong mux)

[Mux213]

Not sure actually,

The last of the 1st generation RX7 and the 4 lug model of the 2nd generation RX7 have the same front brakes. But they are both single piston just like the AE86 brake calipers. Whether the RX7 one accepts a bigger disk brake? No idea, but I wonder if you can use RX7 disks on an AE86, I'm not sure about that. I do know several people convert there 1st gen or 4 lug 2nd gen RX7 to a 5lug from a 2nd gen RX7 so they can run the 4 piston brakes (now thats stopping power!). I even know a guy that runs FD brakes on his 1st gen. No idea if that conversion can be addapted to the AE.

For accepting thicker disks you might be able to enlarge the current caliper, had that done for my DeLorean.

[Ivan141]

I know Max Misawa on club4ag has made his own RX7 4-pot brake conversion, knowing him he'll probably sell these kits to others as well. So if you're interested in rx7 conversions I could do some asking around. He has tried lots of different discs to find the best choice. Stock rx7 discs will not work. You'd only have to find yourself the calipers in that case.

[NoHachi]

Ok, this forum is desperately in need of some braking tech:
First up we need to distinguish between 3 important elements:

1. Braking power
2. Braking capacity
3. Brake feel

1. Braking power, this may seem strange but the braking power is usually more then adequate on even the smallest systems. To test whether you have enough braking power find a abandoned stretch of road, accelerate to 150+km/h and slam on the brakes. If the tires lock up then the brakes provide enough power to overcome the tires and these effectively become the systems restrictions. Thats probably the single most influential factor in braking: the tires. Upgrade before anything else.

Braking power is a function of line pressure and brake cylinder surface area. Switching to 4 pot brakes optimizes the pad area thats used, but why bother when a single pot is sufficient to lock up the tires?

2. A more important aspect of brakes is their braking capacity. Basically not just whether you can lock the tires, but also how many times in succession you are able to do this. The job of the brakes is to dissipate kinetic energy away from the car. It does this by converting it into heat: thats where the problems start. When everything heats up to much fading occurs. Whats fading you say? Ill explain:
Basically fading is every situation where braking effort is not converted into braking force: You pump the pedal, but nothing happens....
There are two forms of fading that generally occur during racing situations: padfade and line fade.
Padfade is a result of a brakepad being heated beyond its effective temperature range. Performance quickly deminishes and the pad surface can glaze over. When this happens the pads put down irregular friction material onto the discs, causing whats usually referred to as disc warpage (but its not). The solution is simple: use a appropriate pad material for the given situation. high temp(low cold bite)for racing, low temp quick initial bite (oem) for street. Whatever the pad YOU MUST MAKE SURE TO FOLLOW THE BEDDING IN INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY! It can make a tremendous difference in pad and disc life.
The second form of fade is line fade. In this situation the fluid inside the calliper is heated beyond its boiling point. Compressible air bubbels are formed and braking pressure is put into compressing these bubbels, not stopping the car. There are several fixes for these problems:
Change the brake fluid often!! best performance upgrade you can do. When the fluid has reached high temps once, it wil never be as good as before. Change to a high temp fluid: Dot4 or DOT5.1 are both fine. Dot5.1 needs a little less maintenance but costs slightly more. DOT5.1 high temp is more readily obtainable though.
Provide more cooling to the brakes; ducts etc are noticable!
Enlarge the thermal capacity of the brakes: By providing more steel that can absorb the heat, and more area to dissipate heat, the capacity of brakes can be improved. Thats why big fat callipers and discs work.

3. Brake feel: This where the subjective part of the story starts. Brake feel is something that is difficult to measure. Usually its about the ease with which the brakes can be applied and held at the traction limit. Logically the smallest possible brakes should be ideal. The stroke of the brakes is largest so it should be easier to controll them.
In practice things are not that simple. Novice drivers seem to prefer the big capacity, short stroke brakes, stating that they feel more secure. usually its noticable in their laptimes too.

So basically big brakes are a worthwhile goal: You increase the systems thermal capacity and improve brake feel. They look good too. It comes at a price though...
Experienced drivers can achieve the same results with just a fluid and pad change and perhaps a couple of discs. Whatever way you figure it, its a much cheaper way of doing things. Your driving style should change to suit. Firm braking application when needed and just enough to slow the car down to the nessesary speed. No dragging on the brakes, short and decisive!
Big brakes usually come with a unsprung weight penalty. This will make it more difficult for your suspension to handle irregularities in the road. The effect gets even worse when you start lightening the car and the sprung/unsprung weight ration changes even further. you start to lose grip over road irregularities and the ride comfort gets worse. this is specifically noticable in AE86's with that heavy rear axle and usually heavy ass wheels.

Most people don't need bigger brakes, but just think they do. Thats fine, but the money could be better spent at other performance modifications that you use more often.

[Ivan141]

Damn bro, even mom's daihatsu outbrakes my AE86...The corolla has pretty pathetic brakes IMHO. I still have stock akebono pads though.

[NoHachi]

Its a universal story thats applicable to most cars. if you can lock your brakes and moms daihatsu still outbrakes your car then the problem isnot with the brakes.

[KristianAE86]

robokill Wrote:try asking Zax and Kristian what they have done with there brakes

HI !
I have brembo stock size discs in front & ferodo pads..

stock rear

zax ?

k