VEMS discussion

[phatBob]

You cannot get the source code GPL did not protect us from its commercial theft. GPL is no garanty of quality and it does not protect people who put effort into the system.

Unless you have access to some extremely good manufacturing tools you will not be able to make the PCB because the components specified are surface mount.
You CAN buy an unfinished board and populate the FETs IGBTs and other options

You do not have to phone UK, you can use the Wiki like many others, or post on forums like this one, want to contact someone directly?, check the wiki: http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage
Bear in mind that these pages do not reflect the actual numbers of ECUs out there, these people tend to be the active members who are developing installations and supporting the system

The main problem is that VEMS is compared to MS because people seem to think that they're somehow the same thing. As has been stated they are not, VEMS started off as a solution to the fact that many of the MS parts were not obtainable easily over here. Thats when it was the MS-AVR system.

A few of us were frustrated by the lack of movement towards independent coil control and some others wanted to develop the digital wideband control so a clean sheet design was called for. V3 came out as a complete break from MS, because the development was in the firmware and the hardware we decided to stick with MegaTune, because it did the job, and was better than anything we could write in the short time we had available to us.

V3.0 came out and was quickly superceeded by v3.1 very few 3.0 boards went out they were pretty much developer only. v3.1 and v3.2 quickly followed as the last few bugs were ironed out. v3.2 is a useful board and many customers are sucessfully using them in a variety of cars.
v3.3 is our current system, the changes from v3.2 have been more about production improvements, the design has been stable since v3.2

I now get feedback from professional motor engineers, who are feeding in development requests that they'd like to see, elements that OEM systems have and only the higher end aftermarket systems have.

Constant development on a stable platform.

So what does all this mean?

Well from the Corolla point of view it means that you can get a v3.3 and a loom that fits directly to for the 16v and 20v engine, the only thing the fitter needs to do is connect the plugs, and tape the loom up, the VEMS comes configured and tested with the loom and test bench. With a Raw Engineering 36-1 pulley kit and sensor you'll be running driving in no time.

VEMS and MegaSquirt are two different systems, but the features they have are indeed very similar, but as has been discussed so have many others. For example both Motec and DTA have PID tuned boost control. Very few systems and certainly none in the price range have built-in wideband control, EGT and Knock sensing.

I hope this answers any questions that people may have

Thanks

Rob

[jamiemirror]

Quote:With a Raw Engineering 36-1 pulley kit and sensor you'll be running driving in no time.

Can 3.2 be configured to use stock Toyota distributor sensors ?

Quote:Unless you have access to some extremely good manufacturing tools you will not be able to make the PCB because the components specified are surface mount.
You CAN buy an unfinished board and populate the FETs IGBTs and other options

Extremely good ? I would say - average. I already made the boards.

Thanks about GPL. If I build the boards myself - will I violate any VEMS rule (something like thademark, copyrights etc etc) ?

[phatBob]

jamiemirror Wrote:Extremely good ? I would say - average. I already made the boards.

Thanks about GPL. If I build the boards myself - will I violate any VEMS rule (something like thademark, copyrights etc etc) ?

Jamie,
I am concerned that you have already made these boards.
Making v3.x boards violates copyright.
They have never been GPL, and we will defend our IP.

I will not be able to participate in this discussion any further.

[jamiemirror]

Then what about this:
If we search for VEMS in Sourceforge.net, we will find even GPL disclaimer for VEMS (MegasquirtAVR). However all files there were removed (stupid ideia, I can upload them anywhere).

http://www.vems-group.org/

Quote:Welcome to the Versatile Engine Management Systems. VEMS is a website for research, design, and implementation for open source engine solutions that targets the following:

Performance
Reliability
Low cost and affordability
Fun, diy engine performance
versatile, for further experience and customization
Anyone can contribute
DIY engine performance became very popular at around 2000-2001 with entry-level injection-only (batch) systems, that VEMS took to a different level with the added functionality of sequential injection ignition, direct ignition, WideBand O2, Detonation Detection and Exhaust Gas Temperature sensing and included space for hardware expansion and customizable functions.

Navigating the Website
Above, and in the wiki, you will find several links that lead to powerful resources of which can be used to build, operate, and install any of our products. You will also find development tools, downloads, and most importantly our webstore.

Maybe I should explain what is "open source", "you will find several links that lead to powerful resources of which can be used to build, operate, and install any of our products. You will also find development tools, downloads" etc. ? Interesting - VEMS is DIY according these statements.

http://www.vems.hu/wiki/

Quote:The Wiki and Collaborating
This website uses a Wiki engine to allow you the developer, programmer, user, etc to interact completely with the developmental process of open source engine performance or the evolution of your engine-project.

Please take care of VEMS by reading the TermsOfAgreement page.

http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=TermsOfAgreement
I can see also empty "terms of agreement". For me this looks like open source (as previously stated) - no any kind of terms here. You can't say that anyone violated any rule or copyright here, sorry.

PS: I hope that you will read this reply, just to clear the case. This was interesting for me, I will limit my builds to ver. 3.2 (or maybe 3.3) just to be sure that I will not break any rule, law or disclaimer.

[Mux213]

Okay,

Time for the admins to step into this thread it seems. The last 24 hours have been very interesting for us, a big learning experience. I've been talking alot with both Jamiemirror and PhatBob about this whole discussion helping both parties come together. What will eventually come out of this? Thats up to them now, anything is still possible. Time will tell, but in the end, thats between them.

VEMS as a company has made it clear to us that their position on this is that their product is owned by them and that they hold the copyright on it. They will protect their product and in my eyes, so they should. They have worked hard for it. Their product does have a certain openes to it because of its nature, you need to be able to adapt the product to your car, but that doesn't make it right to copy that product for your own profit.

The fact that in the past their licensing may or may not have been different, that their organisation may or may not have been more open is important to the rights a person like Jamie has and something they certainly must work out between themselves. It is however a discussion that we as admins have desided does not belong on this board but belongs privately between VEMS and Jamie. Such a discussion, however rightful, no matter what the outcome of it might be, is unnecesairilly harmfull to any company and is of no benefit to any of our members. It would just deteriorate into a flamewar.

To anyone who is interested in developing their own EMS and wishes to go down the route on using VEMS as a starting point, I would say, just contact VEMS, they have good developer programs and are very willing to help you on your way aslong as you stick to their licensing.

To anyone who simply wants to use VEMS or are thinking about using VEMS for his hachi and has technical questions about it, feel free to post your questions here. I'm sure phatbob or other members will do his best to inform you as best they can.

But any more discussion about whether VEMS was once open source or not, whether its legal or not to copy old board designs, or make your own VEMS boards, etc.etc.etc. will be locked. These discussion do not belong here and help nobody. If you have any questions about this decision feel free to pm me.

This thread is locked.